AP: Turbak uninvited to Catholic College commencement for her views on abortion
Here’s one that has been somewhat quiet - Because of her pro-choice views, Democratic State Senator Nancy Turbak has been uninvited to speak at the commencement of a catholic college:
State Sen. Nancy Turbak Berry, who was scheduled to deliver the Presentation College commencement address Saturday, says she was told earlier in the week that she could not speak there because of her views on abortion.
“I was told I was not welcome to speak because I do not share the Catholic Church’s position on the proper role of government in decisions about reproduction,” Turbak Berry said. “While not an especially defining issue for me, I have always been candid about my view that government should have a limited role in what I consider to be very personal decisions.”
and…
She said her views on abortion have been a matter of public record for a long time. She accepted the invitation to speak in January.
Read it all here at the Yankton Press and Dakotan.
Abortion, as highlighted by her being axed from the speaking position, could turn out to be a hot button issue for the Turbak/Koistenen content in the very Catholic community of Watertown.
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Comments
Word on the street in Watertown is that Lee Schonbeck was feeling a little jealous and tired to put pressure on the college to drop her. When he couldn’t do that, he called in the bishop. Anyone who knows Lee would have no trouble believing this is true.
Does that mean that the abortion issue can’t be debated on the Presentation College campus? Could a student be expelled for taking a pro-choice position?
I don’t know if that comment about Schoenbeck being involved is true or not. It does seem very weird that they would have invited her in the first place - her position on that issue is well known.
Who did they get as a replacement speaker?
Bill Fleming -
There is a difference between an individual student espousing beliefs that differ with the Catholic Church, and the Catholic university itself promoting or appearing to promote such a view.
There is no requirement that every student be Catholic or believe in Catholic doctrine. But it is hardly unreasonable that the university would choose to promote Catholic beliefs.
Having said that, as I said a moment ago, it seems weird that they would have invited her in the first place.
So was the abortion issue going to be addressed in Turback’s speech? Certainly students on campus are influenced far more readily by their day to day peer group (the student body) than they are by a commencement speaker. The message I would be getting if I were a student at Presentation is that if you have views similar to Turbacks, you had better keep them to yourself, because people who think like you do are not really welcome here after all, regardless of what our admissions department told you:
Bill, to answer your questions:
First, a commencement speech is not a debate. Second, the morality of abortion is not an open topic for debate in the Church. The Church has determined that the deliberate termination of pregnancy is gravely contrary to moral law, a crime against human life, and inherently evil. Third, but this said, there are certain environs and forums where debate on this issue is permissable.
Presentation College requires no pledge of creed to attend. As far as I know, this is only required in institutions preparing people for ordination or consecration.
Anonymous 8:45: You show so little respect for the Presentation Sisters and their vow. They “have embraced the cross as the price of boldly proclaiming the Word of God in our daily lives and in the Church. We live lives consecrated to God through the vows of poverty, chastity and obedience.
And on April 17th, the Pope said at Catholic University “. . .it is also the case that any appeal to the principle of academic freedom in order to justify positions that contradict the faith and the teaching of the Church would obstruct or even betray the university’s identity and mission; a mission at the heart of the Church’s munus docendi and not somehow autonomous or independent of it.
Teachers and administrators, whether in universities or schools, have the duty and privilege to ensure that students receive instruction in Catholic doctrine and practice. This requires that public witness to the way of Christ, as found in the Gospel and upheld by the Church’s Magisterium, shapes all aspects of an institution’s life, both inside and outside the classroom. Divergence from this vision weakens Catholic identity and, far from advancing freedom, inevitably leads to confusion, whether moral, intellectual or spiritual.”
The Pope’s recent statement makes it clear that the Church expects each institution (educational or otherwise) to always speak with unambigously on Church Teaching such that there is no confusion.
As the invitation was extended in January and the Pope’s statement was in April, the uninvitation should not be surprising. To allow someone who herself said that her views are well-known to have the honor of giving the commencement is clearly contrary to the direction from the Pope.
The Sister’s vow of obedience required the disinvitation and one that I’m sure they embraced. At the same time, I think they deserve praise for the manner in which they did it. They have been extremely circumspect publicly about it. From the press accounts “although her name was still in the program and her absence wasn’t publicly addressed. “The college made an administrative decision to withdraw the invitation,” JoEllen Lindner, vice president for enrollment and student retention services at Presentation, said following the commencement.”
In charity to Ms. Turbak Berry, there is no intent to embarrass her. Let’s just accept this for what it is: The Sister’s living out their vow and primary mission. While I disagree with the Senator’s position on this issue, I respect her right to hold this position. I think it appropriate we give the same respect to the Sisters.
Ok, Turbeck’s position, as I understand it, is that the birth control and abortion issues are matters of conscience. It’s a libertarian position questioning the authority of government to intrude on these matters. That’s not necessarily a pro-abortion position, is it? It seems more like a political one. Would the College allow a speaker who was pro capital punishment. Pro war? Would they even ask?
Bill, the Sister’s exercised their judgment in light of the direction of Pope in the context of their mission and vow. It is their commencent.
While your questions are not related to the matter at hand, I will answer them keeping in mind that I was opposed to the Iraq invasion and am opposed to capital punishment.
The Church does not teach that capital punishment is inherently evil and teaches the Just War Doctrine. The context in which the speaker supports either is the determinant in the particular situation. These are matters in which the prudential judgment and the formation of their conscience of the speaker comes into play.
Oh…now I get it Troy. The church only has gray areas on issues where the republicans don’t agree with the church’s teachings.
bf, the libertarian position on abortion is akin to a sin of omission — i.e., failing to do something about it.
just curious, bf, would you say the same thing about a politician who was opposed to the government enacting legislation to free slaves, that the libertarian position isn’t necessarily a pro-slavery position?
Anonymous: The Church’s teaching on these matters predates formation of the Republican party by a few thousand years.
The principle of the Just War Doctrine goes back to the Old Testament and was synthesized into a formal Doctrine by St. Augustine in the 5th Century.
The licitness of the death penalty goes back to Genesis: “Whosoever shall shed man’s blood, his blood shall be shed; for man was made to the image of God.” And don’t forget that stoning for lesser crimes was also permitted.
From the beginning of Christianity, the Church has taught that abortion was illicit. “You shall not procure [an] abortion, nor destroy a newborn child” (Didache 2:1–2 [A.D. 70]). The Didache is the first known written summary of Christian Doctrine and pre-dates the writing of some Scripture.
I do understand why you might be confused. One must have a basic grasp of the Catholic Teaching with regard to Doctrine, prudential judgment, formation of conscience, and how they inter-relate. Much too long for this forum and beyond my abilities. If you are inclined to study these matters, I refer you to the Catechism of the Catholic Church for a good introduction. Your pursuit of knowledge will lead you to other sources (some of which are directly referenced in the Catechism).
I have no problem with the Sisters exercising their judgement. It’s their Church and their school. All I’m saying is, if you are going to enforce a specific dogma, you shouldn’t imply otherwise in your promotion materials just to recruit students.
Hey, whatever it takes to get money. Say one thing, do another.
So goes the world.
Til you want to talk about it.
Bill, when I graduated from high school, I received a small scholarship from Augustana. They knew I was Catholic as I filled out the application completely. And, I knew they were a Lutheran college. We both knew what we were getting. I chose Augie because at the time I wanted a liberal arts education. I transferred when I decided that I wanted a concentrated business degree. There was no deceit.
My understanding of non-Catholic Christians was greatly enhanced by Augie’s fidelity to being Lutheran, including the requirment to take a religion class taught by an ordained Lutheran minister (I think I’m right that Professor Haar is ordained). My required religion class was overtly Lutheran from a theological perspective. I never took offense in the class or when I attended chapel in the old gym. My time at Augie was a blessing to me for which I’m most appreciative.
For me to expect Augie to be anything but what they are would be the epitome of arrogance. I wonder why Presentation isn’t afforded the same respect?
I’m at a loss on why you think that Presentation isn’t clear on who they are. When you go to their web site it says in the section that explains Presentation College:
“Presentation College is Catholic-Christian college sponsored by and receiving its tradition of concern for persons from the Sisters of the Presentation of the Blessed Virgin Mary (PVBM). . . .The mission of Presentation College is based on the belief that human life is our greatest gift; its full development is our greatest pursuit. Catholic ethical principles respecting life at all stages from conception to death are fostered in instructional and student life situations.”
How much clearer do you expect them to be?
lexrex, with the slavery issue you had a clash of conflicting personal liberties as wall as a states’ rights versus Federal issue. And as I understand it, Lincoln’s insistence on holding the Union together was extra Constitutional. I’m not sure the situations are all that analogous but I’m open to discussion about that. To be sure, I think the anti-abortion crusaders would like to think of this as a human rights issue, but I’m not sure it passes muster. At least not as clearly as the slavery, women’s suffrage, and civil rights issues did.
One comment from Jones. One comment from Fleming. One comment from everyone else combined. This is about the ratio this blog has been running lately.
You both are full of yourselves, and neither of you must have a real job if you can sit and blog surf all day. You both think you have all of the answers, so why haven’t you run for office? Would cut down on the blogging time, eh?
And Troy, I attended both Yankton and Mt. Marty Colleges — one protestant and one Catholic — and believe me, there were no such restrictions on thought or on the selection of speakers at either place in the early 70’s. Education wise, times have changed, and not, in my opinion for the better.
No. 2 coincides with word on the campus, The Bishop intervened and appointed himself speaker.
The President of the college, Sr.Dr. Hale, has remained silent. She is a strong supporter of the Democratic Party, but the choice issue would not have been referred to in a commencement address. The handling of this issue is a big setback for thr college which has made big strides in becoming a full-fledged 4-year institution.
Troy:
You said, “The Church’s teaching on these matters predates formation of the Republican party by a few thousand years,” which isn’t really accurate.
Although you’re technically correct with your summary of the A.D. 70 writing, you must have forgotten to mention that Pope Innocent III’s writing in 1200, which said that while obtaining an abortion after “quickening” (the point in a pregnancy when the woman first feels a fetus move) was homicide, getting one prior to that point was a lesser sin. Innocent’s writing at that time was based on a Canon law writing from a few years prior known as the Decretum Gratiani (otherwise known as the concordia discordantium canonum), which summarized the Church position on abortion.
In fact, official Church doctrine didn’t hold that contraception and abortion were wrong (although Thomas Aquinas had written such things earlier) until 1588. This didn’t last long, though, because in 1591, Pope Gregory XIV declared that Church punishments for abortion wouldn’t be different or harsher than local penalties, even though some locations had no penalty at all.
Troy, you might also find it interesting to note that there are many, many pro-choice Catholics around the world. You seem to be implying (rather condescendingly, by the way) that pro-choice people (particularly Catholics) are too ignorant to understand Catholic doctrine You should check out Catholics for a Free Choice for more information.
It’s so childish that you seem to think that anyone who doesn’t agree with you is simply too ignorant to understand the issue.
Wow…someone on the ground agrees that Schonbeck succumbed to his own jealousy to get his successor tossed out of a speaking engagement. I think that is the story here. Certainly a private college can do whatever it wants when it comes to commencement speakers but it does not say much for the institution when the day before graduation they rescind an invitation that was extended 4 months earlier because some former senator got his panties in a bunch.
Right. The American Catholic Church is not of one mind on this and other issues. And that’s why the Pope came over here. Fiat voluntas tua, sicut in caelo et in terra.
I just was wondering why they asked her in the first place. Also doesn’t the Catholic church take a very dim view on divorce and re-marriage? If they were at first unaware of her stand on abortion, they certainly should have known about her divorces. I just do not get it. I also do not think the college should have any bad publicity; they simply retracted what they considered to be a mistake. In fact, they probably chose the lesser of the two evils. More bad publicity may have come to them had they had her speak. It is just too bad that the circumstance happened at all..
By the way, this entire incident, in my opinion, was not orchestrated by Lee Shonbeck. There is just someone out there trying to make an agenda out of it.
Bottom line, we Catholics are are like the Fonz. We have a really hard time admitting it when we are wr…wro..wron,,, wroo, wro, wrr.
What is the college afraid of? Someone might blurt out something they don’t agree with and lead a student to ruin. Obviously they think their views are pretty weak if they can’t let someone who has different ideas give a commencement speech.
The college is a private institution and can do whatever it wants. This apparently includes making itself look foolish.
Who remembers their commencement speech anyway?
2:25 Yeah. It’s like a real blog, with real traffic, and some goofballs like you who don’t have anything to say. That’s ok, just keep churning. It all helps PP look good.
Oh, and don’t forget to go to VoteYesForLife.com and pray for this. They’re so happy about this they’ve likely peed themselves.
This has to be the situation that arises that changes all of those Presentation college student’s lives.
*cough
BF, if you and I could get real jobs, we wouldn’t be having so a good time here.
brb, boss is calling….
TG. I’m just wondering, when women go to the doc for a general physical exam, do they put on rubber gloves and make you cough?
Or is that just a guy thing?
Depends if the doc is a guy and how good looking he is.
As an aside:
Here’s my fav (nearly obscene) satirical clip of the day from theonion.com.
http://www.theonion.com/content/video/age_progression_technology
I always try to put the rubber glove on my head and pretend I’m a chicken, but hardly anybody ever thinks it’s funny, guys or gals.
Oh well.
How many liberals came to conservative Linda Chavez’s defense when she was disinvited as the commencement speaker at the University of Northern Colorado?
Angie, my comments with regard to referring one to the Catechism was directed to someone whose comments I interpreted to be from a non-Catholic who didn’t grasp the differences with regard to a lumping in of teachings that are not as simplistic as abortion. I meant no insult to you or any pro-choice Catholics.
You are correct that “quickening” was once a defined demarcation. However, it also correponded to “knowledge” of pregnancy and the science at the time. As scientific knowledge increased so did the understanding of the teaching.
As you are studied on the issue, you also know that clarity on doctrine expands as knowledge and problems arise. The Doctrine of the Church wasn’t delivered fully developed the day Christ ascended to Heaven. But the fundamental was always there: Life is sacred.
Sister Mary Blabber: Are you saying that Dr. Hale’s political views supercede the religious views of her employer and stated mission statement of the school? Are you saying that this is the genesis of the invitation?
2:25: I admit that I spend too much time here. Maybe 1:06 is right that I’m full of myself. But if you can name a single group of a few hundred humble people who have done more good* over the last 100 years in our state than the Presentation Sisters, I’ll abstain from posting for a month. They made a decision and I’ll go blind before I’ll stand silent while they are sincerity is questioned.
* hospitals, schools, orphanages, counseling services, nursing homes, feeding the poor, and probably more.
That facts remain:
1) The Pope said last month that Catholic institutions are to reflect Catholic teaching “both inside and outside the classroom” and not divert from this vision lest it lead to confusion “moral, intellectual or spiritual.”
2) The Presentation mission statement says that “Catholic ethical principles respecting life at all stages from conception to death are fostered in instructional and student life situations.” Isn’t the commencement address the cumination of “student life”? Wouldn’t failure to abide by this be the ultimate of false advertising?
3) Senator Turbak Berry holds a public position contrary to Presentation College’s mission statement.
The conflict between #2 and #3 leads to the confusion that the Pope addressed.
I’ll take a bite at your challenge Troy:
[Name one] single group of a few hundred humble people who have done more good* over the last 100 years in our state than the Presentation Sisters?
According to you this would be the Republican party. Right?
PS apparently Catholic teaching doesn’t include grammar. I site the scrolling message at the Cathedral’s website as proof: http://www.cathedralofstjosephsiouxfalls.parishesonline.com/scripts/HostedSites/Org.asp?ID=12730
Troy posts: “But if you can name a single group of a few hundred humble people who have done more good* over the last 100 years in our state than the Presentation Sisters, I’ll abstain from posting for a month. ”
If anyone finds one and reports, I’ll personally bust your head.
Troy-
I’ll take a stab at your challenge- But if you can name a single group of a few hundred humble people who have done more good* over the last 100 years in our state than the Presentation Sisters, I’ll abstain from posting for a month.
According to you this would be the Republican party.
Apparently grammar is not part of a Catholic education as seen on the Cathedral’s scrolling message on their homepage:
http://www.cathedralofstjosephsiouxfalls.parishesonline.com/
Not that I personally agree with Troy on many (hardly any, probably) issues, but he’s one conservative we can deal with.
If all conservatives were like Troy, political life would be boring cause we’d all be getting along too well. 
So don’t make him not post for a month, got it?
Troy- I’ll take you up on the challenge,
Troy posts: “But if you can name a single group of a few hundred humble people who have done more good* over the last 100 years in our state than the Presentation Sisters, I’ll abstain from posting for a month. ”
According to you that would be the Republican party right?
From the looks of the scrolling message on the Cathedral website, grammar must not be a Catholic teaching either
http://www.cathedralofstjosephsiouxfalls.parishesonline.com/
Troy- I’ll take you up on the challenge,
Troy posts: “But if you can name a single group of a few hundred humble people who have done more good* over the last 100 years in our state than the Presentation Sisters, I’ll abstain from posting for a month. ”
According to you that would be the Republican party right?
From the looks of the scrolling message on the Cathedral website, grammar must not be a Catholic teaching either
http://www.cathedralofstjosephsiouxfalls.parishesonline.com/
TG, are we Troys biggest fans or what?
How did that happen?
We must be open minded liberals or something..
I’ll bite at Troy’s qustion…
According to you that would be the Republican Party right?
Apparantly grammar must not be a Catholic teaching either. You’ll see what I mean if you look at the scrolling message at the Sioux Falls Cathedral’s website.
Troy.
Please understand this.
If TGrand and I were running a College we would want you to come and lecture, even though we are crystal clear that we disagree on many, many issues.
That, after all, is what higher learning is all about.
There does come a time when someone who presumes to take their place in a free society deserves to be exposed to points of view that must needs conflict with their own.
And what better time than at graduation?
(…ok ,,,ok … wait for it… wait for it…)
I’m just sayin’…
TG & Bill: Thanks. You are welcome in my home anytime (except during a Twins game unless you want to watch with me). I respect you both even in disagreement and I appreciate that you return the respect, even when I have a Pooh brain.
Favorite Pooh quotes:
“Pooh,” said Rabbit kindly, “you haven’t any brain.”
“I know,” said Pooh humbly.
And
Piglet sidled up to Pooh from behind.
“Pooh!” he whispered.
“Yes, Piglet?”
“Nothing,” said Piglet, taking Pooh’s paw. “I just wanted to be sure of you.”
“Why is it that everyone that is for abortion has already been born?”
You Liberals have strange thought processes, it is okay to kill a baby but you think a toddler should ride in a car seat until puberty!
I will never figure you out.
God Said “Thou shall not kill.”
5:22 It’s not that hard.
“Why is it that everyone that is for abortion has already been born?”
Because they are the only people who have a mind.
Geez bf, I was only trying to make a funny, and you tell me to grow up… I was enjoying the group hug, and am glad you guys can get along. Would be better if all the folks in charge of this country, and the abortion folks, could too.
I agree with the person that says some people on here are full of themselves…some of you veer off the issue…you make it all about you and your “thoughts.” What did the last several postings have to do with the graduation ceremony????
Anon @ 10:09
I am so full of myself you can’t imagine. And I seek continued self and instant gratification. I WANT to see my own posts immediately and not wait for a moderator to pluck through my thoughts, because my thoughts are damned important.
Why else would I, a liberal Democrat, post continually at a nasty lil Republican place.
So, I’ve agreed with you.
What else do you want?
BTW, I missed YOUR comments about this post.
TG: nasty lil Republican place? Do you mean glorious big Rpublican tent?
But good point. I think it is just they have nothing meaningful to say except criticize under a sheet.
Sign your name or at least give us a psuedonym so we can humanize you. Otherwise, you are just a computer.
Wow. I saw that there were 62 comments and wondered why??? Of course. Should have known. BF/TGR are talking to themselves;himself again. Arrghhh. Get a life. Somethere else.
Yesterday, Turbak Berry gave her understanding of the matter whereby she blamed it on “a small group of abortion foes”. Unfortunately, her understanding gives the impression that this is about politics.
This is about theology, Church Teaching, and speaking unambigously on matters that define who the Church is and members called to be.
Anon 7:43: I can absolutely assure you that they are not the same person.
Even so Troy, I’d be surprised to hear that they have the same policy at the University of Notre Dame. But maybe they do.
Watch out Troy, they’re going to start accusing you of being BF and me.
Can you think of anything worse than being accused of being the alter ego of a liberal Democrat like me? The horror!
Notre Dame’s speaker this year is Cardinal Terrence McCarrick.
ND’s current president is Father John Jenkins who endorses the principles of Ex corde Ecclesiae.
Ex corde Ecclesiae is the APOSTOLIC CONSTITUTION OF THE SUPREME PONTIFF
JOHN PAUL II ON CATHOLIC UNIVERSITIES which describes the Church’s vision for Catholic colleges.
TG: Horrible? Maybe just a bit too strong.
The great thing about Troy Jones is that he is so laid back that he totally knows how to wait for it.
If you can jack him up, he becomes like the rest of us.
Stupid.
But mostly, you cant.
That’s one of the reasons why I think he’s cool.
There are other reasons, but I’m going to hold them back.
I’m thinking that’s what he might advise me to do, actually.
Kudos, Mr. Jones.
“…jack him up…”
Is that like being “all jacked up on Mt. Dew!” from that ridiculous movie, Taladega Nights?
The prayer by Ricky Bobby is the best line(s) in the movie:
“Dear Lord baby Jesus, lyin’ there in your ghost manger, just lookin’ at your Baby Einstein developmental videos, learnin’ ’bout shapes and colors. I would like to thank you for bringin’ me and my mama together, and also that my kids no longer sound like retarded gang-bangers.”
That alone should bring Sibby out of the woodwork.
8:34 Right. Just as you are probably certain that the universe is only 6,000 years old and that Elvis is still alive. Hey, go for it dude. Far be it from us to discourage you from being a blissfully self-inflicted mental cripple.
I mean, whatever floats your boat, dude.
What idiot invited her to speak in the first place? Turbak’s “butcher the baby” position is well known.