Lien: Herseth flip/flopping on ANWR
Chris Lien is traveling to ANWR to highlight its vast untapped potential. And to highlight some of the contradictory positions his opponent has taken on it:
He called Herseth Sandlin’s position on ANWR confusing.
“The research we’ve done on her voting record shows she’s voted against it on a few occasions, and now she’s saying she’s in favor of it,” Lien said.
Herseth Sandlin said her record is consistent with her position. She supports drilling off the nation’s coasts and in ANWR if it’s part of a comprehensive, balanced package of energy solutions that includes conservation and renewable energy.
The only time she voted against ANWR drilling, she said, is when Republicans presented it as a stand-alone bill or tried to attach it to legislation that had nothing to do with energy policy. According to her office, Herseth Sandlin voted twice in committee and once on the House floor in 2005 for legislation that included ANWR drilling.
And stay tuned – I’m attempting to line up an interview with Chris on-location when he’s in Alaska. As soon as I have that, you’ll be the first to know.
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Comments
Make sure Chris brings his mukluks.
Shoewear and Politics Editor
SD Watch http://www.southdakotawatch.net
Chris Lien is great!!! He is very exciting and down to earth.
Can’t wait to hear what he has to say. I’m looking forward to Herseth-Sandlin’s response.
Liens trip is paid for by the Republican Party.
Herseths position is not contradictory. Just read her response. She votes for ANWR as part of a comprehensive energy plan – not just for political gain. Makes sense to me. But, I guess if Chris wants her to vote for more politically motivated ANWR bills, he’s out of luck.
I find this issue a non-issue. Both Chris & Herseth are in favor of drilling in ANWR – end of story.
FRANKE-
It may be dead to you but to me, it’s a stand alone bill and that is the eastiest yea or ney there is. No strings attached. Anyway, if it would have passed back then, that oil would be online and the supply would be helping drive the price down. Again a politican that wants it both ways to triangleate her wishy washy position.
Franklin, If the majority of the party votes against ANWR drilling and Sandlin(who lives in a ‘red’ state) votes for it. Why wouldn’t that be political?
And what’s she doin’ about her comprehensive energy plan? Stalin!?!?
Nic, it is not always oil vs us. The fact is there has not been an oil refinery built since Gerald Ford was in office. Another fact oil consumption is up world wide. We have to dig more holes NOW and start with alternative sources NOW!
Pat,
Flip-flops are a part of politics. I thought you would know that being in politics yourself. Chris Lien will flip-flop when he has to just like they all do. Democrats and Republicans flip and flop and flip again. All politicians do, because that is the nature of the beast.
Have a great day!
7. Not that it matters that much, but I thought the candidates were each paying for their own trip. Unless something has changed.
And you can spin it all you want…Herseth can really take a stand if she would vote in support of ANWR as a standalone proposition.
#12 – I think I may have misread an article – I thought it stated who is paying for the trips, but it doesn’t. So I appologize for that. You are prob correct.
I don’t know if a stand alone bill would be the easist. Say they vote for a stand alone that just allows drilling in ANWR – then oil companies can ship down to the US and export it all they want. Its a business – and they have no obligation to keep it in the US (they send millions of gallons overseas now). What good does that do to us?
Thune actually has proposed a bill that would require oil companies to keep the ANWR oil in the US. Thats getting somewhere. Even Thune doesn’t want a stand alone. He’s smarter than that (yes, I said that).
Giving the magic go-ahead to drill doesn’t mean an ease at the pumps, it’s a little more complicated than that.
How about GWB magically makes the dollar worth something, that may ease the cost.
Just to fill everybody in, here’s some info as to who is paying for Chris’s trip: http://www.kyte.tv/ch/92783-chrislienforcongress.
We’ll be keeping that Kyte feed updated as well as the blog on our website (http://chrislienforcongress.typepad.com/my_weblog/) if you guys are looking for more information.
-Mike
New Media Director
Chris Lien for Congress
http://www.chrislien.com
#6 Guy Smylie
No, Corin and I are not related. Although if he wants to claim me and toss a campaign donation my way I wouldn’t complain.
Are you related to Guy Smylie the Sesame Street game show host?
This is not news and most in South Dakota could care less about what every politician does: flip-flop. -Yawn-
I think Pat should spend more time focusing on the issues most of us working people are dealing with like: the mortgage crisis and high gas prices. Not everyone has the luxury or time like Pat does to sit and write about the “political poker games” in Pierre in DC. Just an observation.
#15: What other energy solutions does Mr. Lien have besides oil? I looked at your website and all I found was oil. And once he’s returned from this fact-finding mission, will Mr. Lien be able to tell us how many years it would take for ANWR oil to reach the lower 48 states?
Anonymous, Mr. Lien probably does not have an answer for you. You see, he is just using this as a convenient campaign issue against Herseth and Pat is more than happy to go along. I doubt Pat is serious about answering the question either. See, Pat is just “playin’ this as usual.” He’s not serious about the drilling really making us independent. He’s just interested in winning the “political poker game” as usual and as I discussed earlier. Pat Powers is just like the rest of them and Sibby was right. He can’t answer any question, but, he’s good at “posing” for sucker Republicans, just so he can “one up” the Dems. Flip flop…flip flop…flip flop…and hipty hop! ha, ha, ha…gotta get another beer1
I would venture to guess Lien is in favor of many domestic energy sources, all of which would collectively help free us from the grip of our own addiction to foreign energy sources… I bet he talks about it in the coming weeks and months if you give him the time and listen. Btw, why would you assume he doesn’t know? It seems to me that Sandlin’s back-and-forth’ing on the issue actually shows that she doesn’t really know… and she’s had plenty of time to figure it out! Change?
#19: I agree with you, Mondak, the trip is nothing more than a political stunt. They’re in ANWR to look at … what? The beautiful scenery? Maybe kick a few rocks around and hopefully find oil? Seriously, Mike, how long will it take ANWR oil reach our gas pumps and eventually end up in our vehicles?
#16, I don’t accept any correspondance with Guy Smiley.
Mondak,
If you don’t want bad mortgages don’t sign the note. Or don’t write it.
If you don’t want high gas prices…why don’t you want to increase our supply of oil. Because that’s what we’re talking about here.
And stop EXPECTING our politicians to fail! That was the worst thing that came from the Clinton Presidency. We started letting our politicians to be sleeze-bags. Maybe we need to start treating them like we treat Catholic priests!?!?
21 et al. We wouldn’t be having this conversation if we had had access to ANWR in the 90s. Herseth probably saw some beautiful scenery in Greenland on the taxpayer dollar. Nothing wrong with that, but what came of it? Lien is going to ANWR on his own dime. I like that kind of initiative.
18. You didn’t look that hard at Lien’s official campaign website. Virtually all of his statements deal with a multi-faceted approach to the energy issue.
17. And issues like the mortgage “crisis”? Baloney. I worked hard to pay off my MODEST mortgage. I resent bailing out people who bought something they couldn’t afford in the first place to keep up with the Joneses, or who were too stupid to read the fine print.
I’m tired of whiners who think this site should be talking to liberals. Go elsewhere if you don’t like it.
Hey Franken13: Wow, I thought you had finally said something positive about a Republican (which you profess to be), then you felt you had to add a snide, “…yes, I said that).” What’s up with that? Afraid of offending your Dem friends?
Anon, I don’t think so….
Mr. Guy Smilie, I’ve seen these games over and over and over again for 25 years, long before Clinton came around. You’ll learn in time, son that Mr. Lein is just another politician like Ms. Herseth-Sandlin and Mr. Thune and Mr. Powers. They’re all the same and always will be son.
Sorry for the misspells:
Guy *Smylie and the latest johny come lately politician: Chris Lien*
Pops, Why are you Expecting them to be corrupt?
I’m expecting them to be honest and represent our best interests! If they are ‘going bad’ I’m going to do everything I can to get them OUT!
But I guess you’re probably starting to suckle on the governmental teat. So why the heck would you care!?
Guy, you are just falling for the same old game. Mr. Lien is feeding you a line, many lines, and appears you took the bait. ha,ha,ha…Mr. Powers is more than happy to help get the bait out for Mr. Lien. Don’t you realize the game here. Both sides play it and they play it well because you buy into it. Mr. Lien is not going to make our nation any more energy independent than Ms. Herseth has. Mr. Lien will tell you…yes he will give speeches and realease campaign promises via SDWC and he will attack Ms. Herseth for the same thing he will do if he gets in there. But, if you want to fall for it again and again, then be my guest.
Mondak –
Are you referring to flip-flopping in the same vein of being a College Republican Chairman, and soon thereafter, trying to be an organizer for Obama?
Pat…life is full of changes. I do not regret leaving the Republican Party, nor am I a Democrat. I could not be happier as an Registered Independent voter. However, I do realize I just struck a nerve with the “great and mighty one.” Mr. Powers, I realize that you have such a high opinion of yourself that must be validated by playing all these “political gottcha games” on your blog. To you, like any typical politician these days, it is just one big poker game and all these people you sucker on a daily basis buy into it. Once again, you are right…I left the GOP and I support Obama and, unlike you, I face that head on and don’t try to squirm my way out of addressing issues like you have done with Sibby on IM-10.
Mr. Smylie, this is why I think I “struck a nerve” with the great and mighty Pat Powers: he rarely submits comments to his own blog. However, I always seem to get him to respond to my comments and his responses always come out in this angry, childish tone. That means one thing: I’m telling the truth and he knows I’m telling truth and as a typical politician, he doesn’t like the truth. The truth has never went along with the political poker game of suckering people from the right and the left. ha,ha,ha…am I right Pat?
Who the hell is Mondak? All I can discern from his/her comments is that he/she is bitter, angry, childish.
Mondak,
You recently were a College Republican so does that mean you are relatively young?
If so, I don’t think your comment to refer to Guy as “son” is very appropriate. Someday, you will come to appreciate the value of experience and wisdom. Trust me I know. I once was a young know-it-all.
But if you have struck a nerve with Pat (I really think you over-estimate Pat’s view of what you have to say), it might be because he sees someone young and bright who has become cynical esp. at a young age.
I have been around politics for over 30 years. The vast majority of people in politics (elected and professional) are good people (in both parties) trying to do what they believe is best for their community, state and nation. Granted there are exceptions but they prove the rule even if the exceptions get excessive “coverage.”
For instance, I think many of my friend Todd Epp’s views are “nutty” but he is not a nut. He thinks my views are nutty as well and I hope he doesn’t think I’m a nut. There is a huge distinction.
We just disagree. And, I’ll as aggressively defend Todd’s value to the debate as one who I agree with. Which takes me to the following of your quotes above:
“Chris Lien will flip-flop when he has to just like they all do. . . .latest johny come lately politician: Chris Lien. . . .(Pat)’s not serious about the drilling really making us independent. (Pat)’s just interested in winning the “political poker game” as usual and as I discussed earlier. . . .Both sides play it and they play it well because you buy into it. Mr. Lien is not going to make our nation any more energy independent than Ms. Herseth has. Mr. Lien will tell you…yes he will give speeches and realease campaign promises via SDWC and he will attack Ms. Herseth for the same thing he will do if he gets in there. . . .”
Mondak, you might disagree with Chris Lien but you are projecting onto him a attribute that all who know him (even Democrats) will disagree. Chris Lien is a solid person desiring to do the right thing for South Dakota and the United States. Pat too is a person dedicated to the public good. And both sincerely believe that drilling is in our nation’s best interest and are working hard to see it happen.
And your charges are text book calumny (A false statement maliciously made to injure another’s reputation. The utterance of maliciously false statements; slander.) The political process is served if the debate is based on facts and positions. Resorting to biased and unsubstantiated charges (esp. when all known facts are contrary) does our nation and the process a disservice.
This should be a non-issue. Take a look at what the Energy Information Administration (part of the Department of Energy) has said about ANWR:
“The opening of the ANWR 1002 Area to oil and natural gas development is projected to increase domestic crude oil production starting in 2018.”
Yes, that’s right. No oil from ANWR for 10 years. Keep in mind, these numbers are not from an environmentalist group, they are from the Department of Energy. They also say:
“In the mean ANWR oil resource case, additional oil production resulting from the opening of ANWR reaches 780,000 barrels per day in 2027 and then declines to 710,000 barrels per day in 2030.”
Those numbers would account for about 0.4 – 1.2 percent of world oil consumption in 2030. The EIA estimates drilling in ANWR could lower the average price of oil by about $0.75 by 2025.
I think we can all agree that the price of oil will continue to rise in the future, as according to most estimates we reached peak oil in 2005. 75 cents would have little effect on the price of oil today, so it will be unnoticeable by 2025.
On the other hand, if the United States and other developed nations are able to increase efficiency, expand alternatives, and largely rid themselves of oil by 2025, the price of oil would drop dramatically. In this scenario, oil from ANWR would be unwanted and unneeded in the United States.
Chris Lien shouldn’t have to go to ANWR on a fact-finding mission. All he should have to do is read the DoE reports on it to realize its a stupid idea. That goes for Stephanie as well. Or they could just use the common sense approach: if George W. Bush promotes it, it’s got to be a dumb idea.
37. You were doing OK until you invoked the tiresome “Or they could just use the common sense approach: if George W. Bush promotes it, it’s got to be a dumb idea.”
What is wrong with you people? You don’t help your case any with these predictable throw-away lines.
Anyway…the same thing was said about ANWR more than 10 years ago. We might have had something from there by now. And the alternative-energy stuff is going to take awhile, too. There needs to be a combination of approaches.
Braden, you should detail your “on the other hand” solution. Otherwise, it is just another way of doing nothing.
Most importantly, ANWR is part of a comprehensive solution that addresses the undisputed fact that demand for oil is projected to increase significantly over the next decade.
We need nuclear to make electric cars viable. Otherwise we will see our heating/cooling costs go thru the roof.
We need more refining capacity to meet the demand for oil based energy or more dirty coal will be burned.
Also, your referenced analysis assumes “static” supply against significantly increased demand. It doesn’t take into consideration the likelihood of non-US sources coming on-line which will increase foreign dependence.
It also assumes that the threat of increased supply from off-shore drilling AND ANWR will have no effect on current pricing. Dynamic economic analysis knows that the threat of increased competition (from off-shore drilling and ANWR and alternatives) has immediate pricing effect in the marketplace.
This is a complex issue and your simplistic denial of a proposed solution w/o asserting an alternative with corresponding economic analysis is just a bromide. The problems we face demands more intellectual thought.
Troy,
You’re right, I should have detailed my ‘on the other hand’ scenario further. I was simply trying to show that under two scenarios: one in which oil prices skyrocket and one in which they decline, drilling in ANWR would have a negligible effect on both.
I disagree with you that ANWR is part of a comprehensive solution. As you yourself said, world oil consumption is expected to skyrocket, especially in Indian and China. That makes the relatively small reserve below ANWR all the more negligible.
The figures I cited do take into account the likelihood of non-US sources coming on line. That likelihood is not good. World oil production has been falling since 2005, so many think we have already reached peak oil. New reserves will continue to be found, but they will be smaller and smaller and harder and harder to get to.
So, by stating that the threat of increased supply could affect current markets, are you admitting that speculators have a significant impact on oil prices? Just thought I’d ask, since that’s not something drill here, drill now guy usually believes. Anyway, the oil market is a global market, and ANWR is but a drop in the bucket. It would probably lower the price of oil somewhat immediately, but due to the small amount of oil actually below ANWR compared to the global supply, it wouldn’t be much. -Compromise: just say we are going to drill in ANWR and see what the markets do? 
You’re right that drilling in ANWR would lower gas prices. The question is how much would it lower them, how long would it take, and how much would we have to invest? I think investing in improving efficiency and expanding altervatives is a much better approach. The world will eventually run out of oil, we might as well try to kick the habit now.
And yes I apologize for not explaining expanding efficiency and alternatives. I’m a senior in college and I have yet to complete my comprehensive world energy reform plan I’m somewhat mixed on the idea of nuclear. It’s ‘clean,’ except who wants the waste? I’m keeping my fingers crossed for cold fusion. I like solar and wind, obviously. I think there is real potential with cellulosic ethanol. Drilling the OCS would be OK, as long as there are proven and sizeable reserves found and no Exxon Valdez’s on the coast of Florida. And the government should not subsidize or help pay for the exploration or extraction. Yes this will cut into the oil companies profits, but a business going out of style isn’t meant to be profitable.
If you think all of this is just a bromide (had to look it up, I’ll admit it) and require more intellectual thought, I’ve run out for the day. I’m gonna go support the new Belgian masters of American beer and have a Bud Light.
Troy,
First off, save me a lecture on slander and malicious statements. I have not said one slanderous thing. However, there have been plenty of them on this blog site said about those who don’t agree with Mr. Powers and his political games (Sibby, Herseth…may I go on)?. Quite a few of Mr. Power’s comments have been unprofessional and some are just dishonest. I was just stating the truth. A truth that apparently hit a nerve with some of you and that is no surprise. See, that is what I was going for and I knew it would expose the anger and arrogance that is inside Mr. Powers. Anybody who is comfortable with themselves, and I am one, does not have to resort to the insults that Mr. Powers has thrown around on his blog site numerous times. If you need any examples, just ask me and I will post the quotes. But, you see, I don’t think I need to do that because you know what I’m talking about. So, as far as lectures go Troy: I call them as I see them and I think you know that. If you can’t handle the truth, I’m sorry.
On a more light-hearted note, I think the positive develops that come all out of this is that not so many people are quick to buy into these political games. It is not cynical to question these games, but, to realistic and positive to take a step back and think about what is said rather than get caught up in the game that Mr. Powers is good at.
Good day friends,
You think about it,
and have a beer if you are old enough!
Take Care,
Your Independent Friend
Mondak
By the way, Pat, we are still waiting and waiting for you to address Sibby on his questions over IM-10?
Mondak,
With regards to your comments under #41 – Yawn.
Anger and arrogance? With your holier-than-thou attitude, I think you’ve exhibited enough anger and arrogance where you have no business attempting to call anyone out on it, Mrs. Kettle. Or it is Mr. Pot?
If you have any statements that you’d care to point out as being dishonest, please be my guest. I suspect that they’re simply differences of opinions, and you disagree.
With regards to your comments under #42, If the Sibster would care to tell the rest of SD where SDCAC got the money to get IM 10 on the ballot, and to pass to “open and clean,” that would go a long ways towards showing SD that it isn’t just some BS measure that the SDCAC agreed to prostitute themselves for, just for the ability to skim money off the top.
If Sibby first would care to show us where SDCAC got the money, then I’d be happy to answer any questions he has.
Otherwise, despite your claim of anger and arrogance, if I was going to exhibit anything for you it would be more pity than anything.
Former BHSU CR Chair & former 2004 GOP Victory Campaign staffer now shilling for Obama, and not sure if you should curse the GOP that you once cherished.
You cling to the absolute fringe of the right and slobber over Sibby, yet act as lickspittle for the left as you shill for Herseth and Obama.
Have you ever thought that maybe you need to actually figure out what your views are and what you stand for?
There’s a quote out there by Alexander Hamilton that would seem to be appropriate for the occasion –
“Those who stand for nothing fall for anything.”
Clearly, as you cuddle up to the prince of the Ozarks while recruiting for Obama, you’ve become the epitome of Hamilton’s warning.
More’s the pity.
Otherwise, to paraphrase yourself “Sorry for any ill will, and have a beer when are old enough!”
Respectfully,
“The Angry and Arrogant blogger,” PP at the SDWC.
#23: Talk about baloney. I did look at the official Lien campaign website. Didn’t find anything about other energy alternatives.
Mr. Powers, sir, I have never regretted my decision to leave the College Republicans and the Republican Party. The day I registered as an “Independent” was a day of great relief. It was like a large political weight had been lifted of my shoulders. I have never been so happy and content in my life as I am now. I finally realized that after leaving the GOP, I made the right decision and that I no longer had to conform myself to a political party that I had believed and still believe has sold out the values that they had so desperately and for so many years claimed they stood for. They sold out decency for power. They sold out their values and any credibility they had left for power. But, I’m not part of them anymore and never wish to be again. My message to you Mr. Pat Powers and the South Dakota GOP and the National Republican Party: you can have all the power you desire. I don’t care about your power, your dirty money, or your supposed connections. I don’t care about the power, dirty money, and control of the Democrats, including Obama. It means didley squat to me. I don’t answer to you Mr. Powers…I don’t answer to President Bush…and I don’t answer to Barack Obama. I answer to God…Yahweh… and He alone. My conscience is clean. My thinking is clear and my life is my own. I wish you a life of happiness, Mr. Powers. Enough said. I’m done with this silly little blog.
Respectfully,
Mondak
GRG/Mondak –
Let me get this, you claim to be eschewing both the Democrat’s and Republican’s so-called ‘dirty money?’
At the same time you’re snuggling under the covers with Sibby/IM10, and not caring who is paying for it?
Is that just ignoring reality for whatever you’re choosing to cling to for the moment?
That’s just like Ted Haggard evangelizing about alternative lifestyles. You’re ignoring your own words because they’re inconvenient.
Since you’re answering to God now, his comments on the subject were thus:
“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.” (Matthew 7:1-5 RSV)
So let Mondak’s BS be written, so let it be done.
Braden,
The comprehensive solution to the problem requires many solutions being pursued concurrently.
Some of which I think you advocate with regard to efficiency, alternative sources of energy (including nuclear), and new sources of oil.
The reason that they all need to be pursued concurrently is that conversion to new paradigm’s require time and the technologies are unproven.
For one to eschew any and a gamble on just one is extremely risky. If for instance your alternatives and efficiencies don’t develop as needed, the people that will be most adversely affected will be the poor and young. At $7 gas, I’ll still be able to make a living and get to work. But the dislocation in the economy will be so severe that the impact on those less fortunate will bear the brunt of the failure for your “plan” to come to fruition.
Frankly, Braden, I don’t hate the poor so much to take that risk. We need significantly more sources that can only come from drilling in ANWR and off-shore. But that does not mean that we should not be concurrently pursuing alternatives as you assert. They are part of the comprehensive solution.
Mondak, your self-righteouos sanctimony, lack of self-examination and cynicism is a matter that the world will force you to address. Good luck. It will be rough.
45 from 23. “Comprehensive energy solution.”
“Multi-dimensional energy solution.” What that says to me is that drilling is one component. Which is the way it should be. There should be a lot of things going on at one time…but the Drill Now and No Drill Ever people need to talk to each other for some give-and-take.
–About Mondak: Why are you people engaging him? Ignore him and he will go away.
Wow, the Badlands Blue folks are mentioning Chris Lien more than they are talking about Herseth. BB may be taking juvenile jabs at Lien, but hey. You know what they say about PR…bad publicity is better than no publicity. 
Looks to me like the lefties might be concerned that Republicans who voted for Herseth (and without whose votes she cannot win) might be jumping ship now that they have a real candidate.
Mondak:
You claim relief. I claim you are a quitter. If you did believe in the Republican values,as you claim, then why run? Get more involved and only support the candidates that represent your core beliefs.
As an Independant you can switch your votes, but you can do that from either Party. But I think you should get more involved with your local Party.
The best to you!
Have him take a few pics for posting. They always say there is nothing out there. If there’s nothing there pictures say a thousand words.
For Sandlin, it’s not that she can’t vote one way or the other. It’s that I have no idea which way she’ll vote. And if you voted for her last time, saying ‘I like the way she voted’ isn’t hard to do. Neither is votin’ her in again.