Here’s one that will get a couple of comments - Preschool standards
Terry Woster features a discussion on pre-school standards in today’s Argus Leader, and what might be coming in the 2009 legislative session.
I even get mentioned as an unsuccessful legislative candidate (ouch):
Standard bills died in both the 2007 and 2008 legislative sessions, but it appears likely the issue will resurface in 2009. Rounds told school superintendents recently that “pre-kindergarten has to be addressed.”
To pass, proponents of state-written standards - even voluntary standards - must convince doubters that South Dakota will never become a place where 4-year-olds were required to attend preschool programs.
Republican Sen. Tom Dempster of Sioux Falls, a sponsor of the failed 2007 bill, says universal preschool wouldn’t happen. The greatest benefits of state involvement in such a program would fall to children from families unable to afford private programs, he says.
and…
Pat Powers of Brookings, an unsuccessful legislative candidate in June who frequently blogs on the topic of the “nanny state,” says preschool standards don’t concern him as much as more heavy-handed state actions.
“My argument has always been that if you’re going to have preschool, it’s not inappropriate for the state to set some minimum standards,” Powers says. “It should always be up to the parent to decide if the child will participate.”
Is this the point where I need to don a flak jacket for the comments soon to be flying from my conservative brethren?
And there’s another article today in which I’m quoted on a similar topic, where Avera is creating a new preschool concept where they hope to catch behavioral problems at the preschool stage and help divert children from them:
The program, which will enroll 75 students, is built on research that shows stress can trigger genetic responses that alter behavior. Simply put, a 4-year-old in a high-stress environment is apt to behave badly. Program directors think that by reducing stress, they can encourage better behavior.
“At this point, it’s about observing behaviors that exist right now and the environmental conditions that surround the behavior,” consultant Ted Muenster said. “As we learn more about underlying genetic conditions that put a child at risk, we’ll be able to respond more precisely. But that’s far in the future. We need to assemble a lot of data before that.
“The Sioux Falls School District provides the location, Garfield Elementary, and has contact with the families of 4-year-olds who are the potential participants.
and…
Legislative debates have included fears of so-called nanny state activity, a name applied to anything that intrudes on private lives and individual decisions.
Pat Powers of Brookings, a conservative blogger who rails against nanny state policies, said the Avera pilot doesn’t upset him, so long as parents have final authority to decide whether their children “become voluntary guinea pigs.”
What? The Argus can’t mention “dakotawarcollege.com?” Oh well.
At the end of the day, we need to recognize that while we might not choose it for ourselves, others might want, or need, services for their preschool children.
The parent having the final say should be a major point in any future legislation if it wants to stand a chance of passing.
Standards are acceptable, but only if parental choice is preserved as being more important.
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Comments
Canon, as soon as you get to the part of your comment that involves reality as opposed to a wild imagination, please let me know.
I AM enrolling my 3, soon to be 4 year old in pre-school this fall. And no, she won’t be hanging around with any 9 year olds. They do manage to keep them all in the same age group, and she won’t be riding the buss with any high school seniors that might lead her astray.
As far as the standards go, they would likely do it under rule making authority which does allow for public input. If you don’t like what they come up with for standards, then you should have gone to the hearings.
That is interesting Pat. I think that it is good that you send your kids to Pre-K. Guess what you don’t need the State to be involved. It is amazing that yes local control does work!
I realize your objective is to get “hits” so you can regain your position atop the blogging industry, but I think part of the point of some of the comments you are likely to get, and what Woooster was sort of pointing out when he wrote that you often rail against Nannystatism, is that this topic is one upon which you seem vulnerable to being called a hypocrit. Is that you how you spell that? I don’t know, but everybody knows what I mean.
For the record, I’m all for mandatory pre-K programs, I’m a conservative, and I want to see PP atop the heap of prolific bloganism. So I do my part to support all three causes.
I think at some point parents have to be responsible for any offspring they bring into this world. It is not my responsibility as a taxpayer to pay for babysitting services for pre-K children. Essentially this is what it is. Of course some people are going to want this because it does save them babysitting money. Kids need to be kids for a short period of their lives; they will have plenty of years to learn things. Childhood is too short the way it is.
What happened to the Headstart program anyway?
And don’t give me the story that standards won’t evolve into mandatory taxpayer preschool programs.
Head Start has federally mandated standards. In order to call yourself a Head Start program and receive Federal funding, you have to meet those standards.
In South Dakota there is absolutely no oversight of preschool programs. Which means anybody can start offering preschool with no standards to meet. Preschool programs are not licensed. Nobody is looking to see who is operating the program or what they are teaching and calling it “preschool”. Most parents don’t have a clue what constitutes a quality program. If their child is coming home with preprinted sheets that they have colored in, they think it is time wellspent. And it’s NOT.
Right now, there is nothing in place to stop anyone from offering a preschool program. Including a felon or someone who has been found guilty of child abuse/neglect. And I know, from experience, that there are people like that in this state offering preschool that parents are taking their children to.
It really says some pretty bad things about our state when we are more concerned about regulating barbers, dog kennels, and hunting lodges than we are about the people who are teaching our children at their most vulerable age. Sheesh people….standards just means that the person offering the preschool education knows what the heck they are teaching. let’s all try to get over the paranoid “the state is out to steal our children” rant.
what are the problems with the current pre-k system that requires the state to step in with standards?
I hope there will be some money following these “standards” (mandates) We all know how the state hates those unfunded federal mandates. I have to assume that once a P-K school meets the standards, the state will send a check for 4000 per kid, just like k-12.
NIGNWUT, they’ll be sending that check any day now. As soon as you, I, and everybody else starts coughing up gobs more moola.
And as soon as that cash starts rolling, those entites better become state run programs. Do not be giving my tax dollars to private businesses. The board of regents is part of state government (they just don’t know it), the technical institutes will be, and your day-care is next. THIS, my hirstute, onion-ring eating friends, is what Sibby rails against.
Lexrex apparently didn’t read the comment from sdpunkmom right before his own comment. Go back and read it - it answers your question.
4:47, so there’s a rash of felons running pre-k programs in the state? who? where?
are there any other problems with the current system besides that?
Just a thought, but the same sort of free-market factors would seem to cover day care that affect barbers. We have little regulation over barbers other than they are “inspected” once every few years and have a certificate on their wall. But there are some bad barbers out there. Some really bad ones.
I, for one, have quit going to at least 3 different barbers because of their results. Now, some of that might be my problem, some of it might not. But it’s my choice not to use those barbers. I have come to the realization that I need to take a certain amount of personal responsibility to either check out the barber beforehand, or else live with the results and make my next choice based on the previous outcomes.
…or else live with the results and make my next choice based on the previous outcomes.
Good idea for haircuts… BAD idea for kids.
You know, this is attacking the problem from the wrong end. Instead of trying to make little Einsteins out of kids from the moment of birth, and believe me there is plenty of pressure on moms nowadays to do just that, followed by with mandatory pre-K standards and eventual pre-K attendance, maybe the real problem is the dumbing down of standards and the grade inflation in high school, graduating kids that can’t read, spell, or do math on a competent level.
Seems thats a problem now apparent and accounting for some of the students not being able to keep their Opportunity scholarships. Instead of thinking maybe the kids should apply themselves or maybe they didn’t merit the scholarships in the first place (became of inflated grades), the answer seemed to be that the standards for keeping the scholarships were too high.
What good does it do to offer pre-K to kids if they aren’t held to high standards later in school? Answer: None!
This whole issue has been brought on by EEGO,,,Is it janitor or property maintanence manager, is it secretary or administrative assistant, is it garbage man or sanitation engineer, is it baby sitting or is it pre-school. MOst folks know that Pre-school costs more than “baby sitting”. Many “programs” call themselves pre-school but are really just babysitting. Parents can tell very quickly which one their children are in. Any and all parents with average IQ’s can tell by talking to their children, like, what did you do in pre-school today? The kids will tell you that they learned to make an “A” or they watched Barney all day. The state passing “standards” (mandates) wont change what folks want to pay for. For some, a 100 bucks a week is to expensive for preschool, when the lady at the end of the street will babysit for 50 bucks a week.
Someone please tell me why kids need special pre-K programs anyway? Let them be kids for awhile and enjoy childhood.
My kids did to to pre school for 1 year each, not to learn things, but to get expereince playing with other kids, and honestly I think that’s mostly what was emphasized back then. But each of my kids basically got top grades all thru school, and each went to college and on to doctorate degrees. Going to preschool had no effect on their success. They were allowed to be kids.
I still think the main promoters of this are those who will benefit from less babysitting costs.
Establishing pre-k standards: Harms nobody. Does not force any preschool to follow the standards. Does not force any parents to put their kids in pre-k. Basically establishes best practices.
Anyone who wants their kids to stay home -fine, have it your way. Anyone who wants their kids to go to a preschool that doesn’t follow the standards - your choice. At least you can make an informed decision.
I’m not an expert on preschool education. I don’t know what to look for in a preschool. I’d like to know whether or not the pre-school my kids will go to follows some standards. This is great for parents who want their kids prepared for kindergarten. I’m all for it.
Without reading any of the prior post here I go: PP you and I know that this standard will set in place a full time program. Come on and get real it is the push across the state and the nation, just look what the dems have wanted on the national level.
This concept is just like those who babysit without being stated registered and paid to feed the kids that come to their homes.
Just pass it all off to the state to handle and manage.
“I don’t know what to look for in a preschool.”
so let the government tell you what to look for?
don’t you think that too often we look to the government to do what we ought to be doing ourselves?
this is an answer looking for a problem. and usually when we ask the government for the answer, it’s the government that ends up being the problem.
i agree with pp, this is not a big deal, not at first blush. but rest assured that someday, it will be a big deal. government intervention is like a patch of clover, weaving its way through your lawn. pretty soon, the grass is choked off and has no freedom to grow.
it was madison who said it’s our duty as citizens to take alarm at the very first encroachment of the government on our freedoms. the time to get the camel out of your tent is when he first pokes his nose in, not when he’s strolled all the way in.
The only good thing that may come out of these standards is that there may be enough preschools for parents (who choose) to send their kids to. In our community the waiting lists are long for the one so called preschool, and I may be wrong but isn’t Head Start for only economically or developmentally disadvantaged kids?
And…Springer 7:16, I am a high school teacher and you need to send your lecture to the elementary teachers who pass those kids to the high school. When they get to us with those problems they have to be placed, usually, on an IEP (special education program) and failing or not graduating one of those students is a big no no in the eyes of the overseeing equal opportunity gods (government, advocacy). The failing needs to happen in the elementary instead of passing the kids so that they “feel good.” Because I can tell you the 15-20 kids I fail every year don’t “feel good” about it.
PP, how come your blogofilerdeallymabob has a link to something on that SoDaKola site that isn’t there?
“» Pat, stick to being a boring Republican, a realtor and a babymaker
10/08/08 18:07 from
From time to time Pattycake will make some Microsoft Paint toons (did FolkArts help you out?). Just because I kicked your ass last week in being the #1 Political SD website, doesn’t mean you need to challenge me in satire…?
I wonder if he got really itchy, then pulled it back.
Standards are not a mandate. Standards would just say this is what a quality preschool program looks like. This is the type of activity that is appropriate for preschool age children.
For preschool children, play is thier primary way of learning. A good quality preschool works with that. They recognize and act on “teaching moments”. Which means that they use what comes up naturally, during play, to pass on information.
A quality preschool program does not have worksheets, or formal lessons. It isn’t trying to force feed children the alphabet or reading or math skills.
But most parents, myself included when my children were young, don’t know what a quality program looks like.
Standards just say that this is the best practice, this is the best way to work with young children.
And yes, in South Dakota a child abuser CAN open a preschool, and most parents don’t have access to screening tools to find out if this is true. In small communities it’s not a problem, but it really could be in RC or SF.
How can we answer your latest question lexrex, when the government has no oversight over pre-schools? You just made SDPunkmom’s point. Abusers could be anywhere, and how would we know it? If you’d rather NOT have government keep abusers from running preschools, you are both crazy and really a sick person.
Mom/Teacher, you are right. I should not have limited my comments to high school. It’s across the board. And it’s to the long term detriment of the students, the same ones these preK standards are supposed to help.
Standards will soon become, and already are in SF I think, taxpayer funded preK. There isn’t obviously enough money to fund K-12 now, based on the pending lawsuit and the continual screaming from schools. Where is the money supposed to come from to expand taxpayer funded preK?
So what some you people are saying on here is that without the government’s help, you have no way of knowing whether you are sending your kid to a quality preschool?
What happened to asking for recommendations from other parents? Doing an hour of research on the web where there are countless published guidelines including our own SD Dept. of Education? Asking to review the material with the provider? Come on people, take an active role in your kids education!
The Lexrex 8:33 comment is dead on. The pro-prek crowd knows they could never pass mandatory and there is little money available but socialism expands by little tiny steps. A long journey begins with the first step and this is the foot in the door just like where Kindergarten started.
10:28, pardon my having fun at your expense, but do you call the cops on your neighbors if they’re too quiet?
911: what’s your emergency?
caller: yes, i need the police to come check on my neighbors. i think they’re doing something illegal?
911: such as?
caller: i don’t know.
911: do you see or hear any suspicious activity?
caller: no. but if you don’t send the cops, i will NEVER know.
911: sounds serious. i’ll send an officer over right away. oh, make sure you have your wallet out. it’s gonna cost ya.
My point about Kindergarten was it was never to me mandated and all the same reasons we are hearing about preschool. Nobody is complaining about it.
I’m having fun at your expense Lexrex. Sound the alarm, our freedom is at stake! There’s a government plot to take away our kids! And Plant clover in our lawns! There’s a government camel’s nose in our tent!
I’m chicken little (lexrex) and I paid for this message.
3:50, i’m not nearly as funny as those of you who can’t do anything unless the government tells you how.
i’ll freely admit that this issue is not a big deal. it’s what this deal might become down the road unless we stop it now. and there’s plenty of history with other government programs that started out this innocently to justify my skepticism.
Pre-school standards. Are you joking? No they are not a good thing - no matter if parents have the choice to send them. Some 4-yr olds are barely potty-trained.
There is already a system in place for testing pre-K kids. Kindergarten screening. can they stack blocks? do they know yellow from red? can they say their ABC’s? can they wave with one hand? one hand and one foot? both hands and both feet? those educators who like to experiment with children should really stop.
no one from the gov’s office has ever explained what the potential standards for pre-school will be - and whether passing that standard is a prerequisite for kindergarten. PP - what are pre-school standards? give me an example. How can you say it’s good, if you don’t know what they are?
And if there is mandatory pre-K or even optional for “lower incomes” — how many bus drivers or parents really want 4 yr olds on the bus for a two-hour bus ride each morning. (courtesy of school consolidation) Do you really know what goes on on those buses with the middle & Jr. high kids?? even the 3rd graders — PP, you want your 4 yr old hanging out for 2-3 hours / day with that 9yr old down the street - the one with the bad language that smokes behind his folks’ shed?