It’s those little mistakes that tend to set your cause back.

Not like a “Christian” husband ever killed his estranged wife, huh Pat?

Todd, you are right in pointing out the obvious put so is PP.

No Buddhist husband ever hilled his estranged wife.

Hilled. It’s a zen-master term. Epp’ll know what I mean.

Wow. And if anyone points out these Muslim practices and beliefs, we are called racist and intolerant.

5:03, yep. But Catholics are always fair game and it’s OK.

And Epp at 1:25: The difference here is that this guy claimed to base his whole enterprise on tolerance, etc.

Todd – Anon 5:36 nailed the whole point. His enterprise was about showing how tolerant Muslims are. And then he has to slip up and “accidentally” behead his spouse because she wanted a divorce.

That troubling practice has a tendency of setting the gentleman’s cause of “tolerance and understanding” a few pegs back.

If a white dude beheads his wife, it brutality. If a muslim beheads his wife, it’s often an accepted practice, just like “forced female circumcision” in some african tribes or “mercy killings in defense of honor” still being allowed in countries such as Brazil, etc.

True muslims see women as mere cattle, they can be abused, ignored and made subservient without thought. Radical muslims see everyone as cattle rip for their slaying. Check out the Muslim families with the wife wrapped from head to toe and the husband swaggering around in his polo without a care in the world. Very few things piss me off more than that. It’s nothing but a cock show where the whimpy little muslim man gourges himself on his own vanity and self-absorbed sense of power. The muslim men association with whomever they want, go where they want, drink what they want, get hookers (9-11 hijackers all did that the nights before boarding our planes) but if the muslim woman even appears in public with a man who is not her husband, it’s off to the gallos. Marry another man (oh God help you if he’s not muslim), there’s a death sentence normally carried out by the males of the muslim family. Just a few months ago, three women who eloped with their boyfriends in a another town were subsequently rounded up by their male relatives, taken to the desert where they were buried alive. When one of the girl’s mothers came out to object, they hacked her to death, and buried her in the same makeshift grave. Oh, nice religious custom. Slime. Complete BS and I pray for a revolution within.

Todd,

Just asking, but are beheadings common in western New York? The method of killing does seem a bit more common in some cultures than others.

Duh; thank you for speaking on behalf of the world’s 2 billion Muslims.

Jo,

I know full well that MOST muslims are not extremists, I’ve worked with quite a few of them, been friends with some and socialized with many.

Indeed, we face threats from non-islamic terrorists that we ignore or downplay to our peril (ie, narco-terrorists, nuclear advancements and technology transfers between North Korea and anti-western countries and groups, destablization of the former Soviet Union and lax controls on it’s nuclear resources, etc).

That said, if 1% of the world’s 1.5 billion population (population estimate found here – http://www.asoon.org/a-islam.htm) is a “radical jihadist”, that leaves us with 15 million jihadists dedicated to seeing the rest of the world convert, capitulate or die.

I think it’s rational to assume a somewhat higher percentage of the Muslim population, while not willing to actively engage in jihad, are openly and/or financially supportive of its aims.

At this point, we’re discussing a rather large world population that has deeply held beliefs that are incompatible with Western Civilization, our Constitution and the 21st Century.

The Muslim population, at large, has been remarkably subdued in its condemnation of this radical minority.

If the “nice” Muslims want tolerance, then get condemn, shun, purge the jihadist types from your fold. If not, then you will have to live with being tainted by them. And don’t blame me if I trust none of them. After all, this beheader was claiming to be one of the nice Muslims, and look at him.

Nice silence Todd- found yourself on the wrong side of that one ehh? Its good for your law firm though, we know who they can go to for a defense.

I don’t think I called anyone a racist. Just pointed out that one person doesn’t represent and entire race or religion. The implication of the story as portrayed by PP is that angry Muslim males behead their wives who serve them divorce papers. This idiot is no more representative of Muslims as pedophile Catholic priests are of the clergy or Catholics.

I thought you conservatives were all about judging the individual and that the individual is responsible for their actions?

Namaste.

Todd Epp
SD Watch http://www.southdakotawatch.net

P.S. And ymous. I don’t spend my entire day here waiting to respond to your comments, as much fun as that might be.

You all realize of course that implying that all muslims are like this guy is equivalent to saying that all professional football players have the same family values as O.J. Simpson, right? Or that Ted Klaudt is a prototypical example of a fervent South Dakota Christian?

Come on, people.

“an” not “and”

Jo: Apparently, as William above indicated, I did speak for a culture that for out of fear or ignorance, fails to take care of it’s own whack jobs.

Jo, I assume by your spelling that you’re a woman. Would you be happy in a culture and religion that considers you a subhuman? How do you look in a burka? Are you tongue in cheek defending them? Typical liberal attitude, broad brush defense of a whack job muslim while he’s guiding a sword blade towards your neck.

I agree that one bad apple doesn’t necessarily spoil the whole bunch, but when the whole either doesn’t materially rise against such stupid practices as stated above or by its inaction essentially condones such behavior, then I guess the whole bunch risks rotting, 1.5 billion religiously, morally, rotting muslims.

Bill: OJ analysis incorrect here. Course of conduct Bill, course of conduct. It’s an accepted practice for many things found offensive in the muslim culture. Ask anyone who’s written books or produced movies critical of muslims. Fatwa anyone??

Duh’s got it about right. Education is the way out, and terrible things happen when we let fundamentalist religious fanatics run the show. Now, flash on how Sibby and Bob Ellis want us to return to the days of puritanical rule, the Salem witch trials, and a 6000 year old planet and you’re there.

Todd-
Using Williams model for arguments sake of 1% of the muslim population equates to 15,000,000 radicals within its ranks with the majority of the ranks turning a blind eye towards the extreme behavior but still funding the radicals. Then you take an arguable position that a higher % believe in the position that women in general are “property” and these individuals feel entitled to treat ther “property” any way they see fit as there god will protect them in the after world.

The one bad apple theory your pushing is fine, but if we inserted catholics or any other religion, I I dont thing you would be so passive. Unless it was your daughter that thought she loved one of these guys, then decided she didnt want to be married to him any longer, oh whoops I made a mistake.

Until the ranks starts voacully and physically taking on the radicals and the inhumane treatment of there daughters and women I for one will continue to be on the opposite side of you. Everybody that was catholic I know condemned the priests and they owned and are trying to correct the past wrongs. I cant say that about muslims. No, I’m not catholic. But to me, your caviler attitude towards the radicals and there horrible treatment of women in general puts me at great odds with you. No, I’m not a women but am married and have a daughter.

ymous, good explanation of the problem, now, what’s the solution?

How does anything you said prove you are on the opposite side of Todd?

He doesn’t support radical fundamentalism or the oppression of women as far as I can tell, and neither do you, it seems.

So how does that put you on opposite sides with him?

sidenote:

ymous’s little rant is perhaps a good example of why it is so difficult for people of the muslim faith to unify on the side of right thinking and right action.

They are divided, just as we sometimes are, by seemingly insignificant political, religious, racial and attitudinal differences.

Maybe we get our own act together before we go presuming to show the rest of the world how they should get along.

Simpley put, their actions speak volumes, or there do nothing actions. The media focused on the catholic problem and the pressure put on them was so great that there early soutions fell far short of where we are today. Where Todd isnt supporting or saying the 2 above examples are ok with him. It’s the but blah blah blah. If the media, muslims and population as a whole took the muslim religion to task for it’s pathetic task taking excuse for extremism and womens rights the ball could move as fast as it did for the catholic religion. No excuses or buts, there caviler attitudes and we have always treated women like property attitudes and people so worried about offending the religion. Instead, they should be embarassed and held accountable. There own ranks should be screaming at the top of there lungs like the catholics did with there wallets and there voices.

But no, it somehow boomer-rangs back to the United States “What right do we have to apply pressure to treat women as equals”. Bill with all due respect, there is no excuse for abusing little boys, and there is no place in society to treat women the way they do, NONE.

There are just certain things one cannot relent on, but this blamming us is well sorry, CRAP.

It’s weird to be arguing with two well know liberal democrat’s on such a thing as womens rights. The republican party was greatly responsible for african american’s rights to not be slaves, the movement in the 60’s and womens rights. I’m sure this will be another example 30 years from now some how the democrats will take full credit for. Sorry, “I’m just saying”. Do whats right isnt always whats popular, its called leading!

sorry known

We’re not arguing with you ymous,

You’re just trying to pretend we are.

Why?

Bill “Maybe we get our own act together before we go presuming to show the rest of the world how they should get along.”

You know that will never happen but it doesn’t mean that we can’t show distain for this “religion”, ya know, the one that issues Fatwas on things as stated above or even if you depict their “Allah” in print or to write about him/her/it.

A little experiment for you Bill, go to your city square, town hall or whatever an yell that you’re an atheist (which I assume you’re not, but for example) and see what happens. Not much but a couple looks. Now go to a travel agent book a flight to any extremist muslim city and say predominately the same thing. What happens? I’ll give you 10-1 odds that your covered in something within minutes, if not seconds. What kind of sicko organization is this? Again, muslim extremist exist for our demise, period.

There is no rationale to this crap and you can wait all the way until you have to let them in your front door. Complacency is their weapon. So is fear. Ymous mentions that he thinks the media should be taking the muslims to task. Can’t happen. Every media outlet that has posed criticism towards the muslims have either been bombed, attacked or the writers either now dead or on the run. How can anyone in their right mind defend that?

Violence begets violence. That is the only communication they understand and until the nonmuslim world stands up for the oppressed muslims and the muslim women, it will never stop. I need some advil.

I think we can all agree that beheading your estranged wife is reprehensible, whomever does it. Doesn’t mean all Muslims are bad or all Christians are good. We don’t punish people collectively in American society. We punish the perpetrator, like this moron who killed his wife. That he is a Muslim is much less important than he killed someone without provocation.

I even believe in the death penalty and think that he might well deserve the death penalty if he is guilty. Seems like a punishment that would fit the crime.

ymous, I’m guessing you weren’t expecting that twist from a “well known liberal.”

People are full of surprises. We are more than our labels, religions, political affiliations, and so forth.

Todd Epp
SD Watch http://www.southdakotawatch.net

Todd-
His being a muslim is relevant because it’s more of the norm to not condem this type of behavior. Duh followed where I was going more then Bill but words and actions matter. I tell my kids that every day. I remember bullies in highschool, one person telling the bully there wrong has little to no impact, but collectively if the school, the kids and the paper stick together on this individual, the bully stops. I knew you were pro death penalty, until other muslims stand up for womens rights, this religion loses alot of credibility it may or may not deserve. But it doesnt right now. Just my opinion. Im sure I run the risk of a bombing on this but thats why I’m ymous, your balls bounce bigger then I. But democrats are also gambling on this issue with womens groups.

Sometimes I do like to punch a bully in the face though, because desering as it may be, it just happendS, IT MAKES EM THINK TWICE NEXT TIME.

The problem with this guy’s reprehensible act, beyond the actual act itself, was that he was preaching to us that Muslims were wondeful, misunderstood, and we should all be more tolerant of them and we were terrible people if we didn’t. Well, sorry, fella, but you just confirmed the suspicions and fears of non-Muslims, and I am not going to be tolerant, understanding, or trusting of anything anything a Muslim says.

And any comparison of this act to anything the Catholic church has done is completely ridiculous. The Catholic issue was wrong, and is being addressed. The Muslim beliefs as evidenced by this act are what they are with no apology from them whatsoever and no plan to change. I will say it again, if the Muslims want to prove how wonderful they are, then as a group stand up to these radicals, denounce them, denounce Sharia law, etc etc. But they won’t do this. Enough said.

“I am not going to be tolerant, understanding, or trusting of anything anything a Muslim says.”

Sorry, but that generalization makes you sound like a bigot, springer.

Are you ok with that?

I don’t know about: “I am not going to be tolerant, understanding, or trusting of anything anything a Muslim says”…. I would change it to “I am not going to be tolerant, understanding, or trusting of anything anything a Muslim leader or spokeman (not person cause women are cattle remember??) says. Their (radicals) existence is our demise. \

It seems like PP is using this guy as a poster boy for why everyone else should condemn Muslims as a whole. It’s sort of like holding up Fred Phelps as a shining example of what a religious person is usually like.

It may turn out this guy just is an abusive asshole who happens to be Muslim, not a abusive Muslim asshole. Focus on the man until he says he did this because ‘The Koran Told Him So’.

Why not use this to illustrate the problem of abusive men who murder their wives and girlfriends, for simply wanting to get away from them? That cuts across all races, classes and faiths.

It seems like Elias, like many others, cant read.

All I’m doing is pointing out the irony of a man who “who founded Bridges TV in November 2004 to counter anti-Islam stereotypes” chopping his wife’s head off bcause she was going to divorce him.

If I’m a bigot for stating the obvious, then so be it. I’m tired of being tolerant and told how great Muslims are. You can look at what happened to the Dutch author who tried to visit England lately, or how nations are being required to allow Sharia law, or we are supposed to think this guy was just a jerk and now a follower of Islam. Sorry, I don’t buy it anymore. When Muslims will stand up to the radicals, condemn them, and get rid of them, then I will be “understanding.”

typo above …and NOT a follower of Islam… (instead of now)

So, just to be clear, springer, are you saying that you’ll only be willing to try to understand the Muslim’s problems and have compassion for them after they’ve solved those problems and don’t need your understanding anymore?

In that case, why bother?

It’s ironic, here is guy who is trying to change the image of muslims, his wife tries to divorce him and under there interp of the Koran, its ok because she is his property. Your willing to overlook this huge stick in your eye because your worried you’ll anger them. What?

It has to do with there core values and what there leaders do, think and say. There end justifies there means. I’m not speaking for everybody here but what I’m trying to say is until they care for and love the women in there lives like the west does there is really very little to be said.
They need to stop sending there children as sucide murders and make it clear that womens rights are at least moving in the right direction.

Bill and Todd-I just disagree, there are certain things that are non-negotiable, the above are two of them. Womens rights mean that much to me.

Good to hear, ymous, but don’t forget, American women just got the right to vote 89 years ago. (My grandmother was 21 years old at the time, pregnant with my mother.) We have yet to pass the ERA, and we still have lawmakers both State and Federal who want the Government be in control of every women citizen’s reproductive organs.

I’m sorry, my grandmother was pregnant with my aunt, not my mother.

My mother was born in 1929.

According to the Koran you can cut off HER head to spite YOUR face. Interesting.

Our Illustrious Hillary was over in indonesia trying to gather some love for the muslims. What did she get, riots, burned tires, burned effigies (sp?) of Hilary, etc.

Nice reception.

From Fox today. Pretty much answers the rouge dude theory. The moron was basically following islamic law. As Waylon Jennings used to sing: “Don’t let your sons grow up to be muslims….” The last paragraph will undoubtedly be used as in any “one rotten apple” defense.

Beheading in New York Appears to Be Honor Killing, Experts Say
Tuesday, February 17, 2009
By Joshua Rhett Miller

Muzzammil Hassan, right, founder of Bridges TV, is charged with murder in the beheading of his wife, Aasiya Hassan, left, in Orchard Park, N.Y.
Muzzammil Hassan, right, founder of Bridges TV, is charged with murder in the beheading of his wife, Aasiya Hassan, left, in Orchard Park, N.Y.

The beheading of 37-year-old Aasiya Hassan has all the markings of an honor killing, psychologists and Islamic experts tell FOXNews.com, as the upstate New York woman’s husband awaits a preliminary hearing on murder charges.

Muzzammil Hassan, 44, remains jailed after being charged with the second-degree murder of his wife, whose body was found Thursday at the office of Bridges TV, their television station in Orchard Park, near Buffalo.

Orchard Park Police Chief Andrew Benz said Hassan has not confessed to the crime, despite media reports to the contrary.

“He came in and said his wife was dead,” said Benz, who declined to elaborate on the particulars of his conversation with the suspect.

But Erie County District Attorney Frank Sedita III left no doubt that he believes Muzzammil Hassan killed his wife. Hassan will appear for a preliminary hearing Wednesday in Orchard Park. If convicted of second-degree murder, he faces up to life in prison.

“He’s a pretty vicious and remorseless bastard,” Sedita told FOXNews.com Tuesday. “Whether he was motivated by some kind of interpretation of his religious or cultural views, we don’t know. We’ll look into everything in the case.”

Asked if the murder is being probed as an honor killing, Benz replied, “We’ve been told that there’s no place for that kind of action in their faith, but I wouldn’t say that there’s anything that’s being completely ruled out at this point.”

But psychologists and some American Muslims said the slaying has all the markings of an honor killing.

“The fierce and gruesome nature of this murder signals it’s an honor killing,” said Dr. Phyllis Chesler, an author and professor of psychology at the Richmond College of the City University of New York. “What she did was worthy of capital punishment in his eyes.”

Following multiple episodes of domestic violence, Aasiya Hassan filed for divorce on Feb. 6 and obtained an order of protection that barred her husband from their home, according to attorney Elizabeth DiPirro, whose law firm, Hogan Willig, represented Aasiya Hassan in the divorce proceeding.

Chesler, who wrote “Are Honor Killings Simply Domestic Violence?” for Middle East Quarterly, said some Muslim men consider divorce a dishonor on their family.

“This is not permitted in their culture,” said Chesler, whose study analyzed more than 50 reports of honor killings in North America and Europe. “This is, from a cultural point of view, an honor killing.”

Chesler said honor killings typically are Muslim-on-Muslim crimes and largely involve teenage daughters, young women and, to a lesser extent, wives.

But Chesler said the “extremely gruesome nature” of the crime closely matches the characteristics of an honor killing.

“Leaving the body parts displayed the way he did, like a terrorist would do, that’s very peculiar, it’s very public,” Chesler said. “He wanted to show that even though his business venture may have been failing, that he was in control of his wife.”

Chesler called on U.S. and Canadian immigration authorities to inform potential Muslim immigrants and new Muslim citizens that it’s illegal to abuse women in the two countries.

“As long as Islamist advocacy groups continue to obfuscate the problem, and government and police officials accept their inaccurate versions of reality, women will continue to be killed for honor in the West, such murder may even accelerate,” Chesler wrote. “Unchecked by Western law, their blood will be on society’s hands.”

M. Zuhdi Jasser, founder and chairman of the American Islamic Forum for Democracy, agreed with Chesler.

“It certainly has all the markings of [an honor killing],” Jasser told FOXNews.com. “She expressed through the legal system that she was being abused, and at the moment she asked for divorce, she’s not only murdered — she’s decapitated.”

Muzzammil and Aasiya Hassan founded Bridges TV in November 2004 to counter anti-Islam stereotypes, touting the network as the “first-ever full-time home for American Muslims,” according to a 2004 press release.

Jasser said he was concerned that Aasiya Hassan suffered such a barbaric death after she and her husband were seen as a couple focused on bettering the “Islamic image” in the United States.

“The most dangerous aspect of this case is to simply say it’s domestic violence,” Jasser told FOXNews.com.

In a 1,300-word statement, Islamic Society of North America Vice President Imam Mohammed Hagmagid Ali said the organization was “shocked and saddened” by the killing.

“This is a wake up call to all of us, that violence against women is real and can not be ignored,” the statement read. “It must be addressed collectively by every member of our community.”

Ali called on imams and community leaders to take a “strong stand” against domestic violence, and he denounced the link of shame and divorce among Muslims.

“Women who seek divorce from their spouses because of physical abuse should get full support from the community and should not be viewed as someone who has brought shame to herself or her family,” the statement continued. “The shame is on the person who committed the act of violence or abuse. Our community needs to take a strong stand against abusive spouses.”

Meanwhile, Rabbi Brad Hirschfield, a producer and host for Bridges TV who worked alongside the Hassans, said “now is not the time” to debate the cultural and religious context of the murder that appears to be an honor killing inspired by Aasiya Hassan’s desire to divorce her husband.

“There will be time for that later,” Hirschfield said in a statement obtained by FOXNews.com. “I will only say to those who leap to the conclusion that this kind of thing is intrinsic to Islam, ask yourselves if you think that drunkenness is intrinsic to Irish Catholics, or cheating in business is to Jews?”