Argus Leader: Tribes looking for Obama and the Dems to give them the Black Hills
From the Argus Leader this morning, it appears that the Tribes are looking for Obama and the Dems to give them the Black Hills:
A campaign conversation with the man who would become president of the United States has some Sioux leaders thinking they might finally get part of their sacred Black Hills back. And they’re working on a plan to achieve that.
In a May 2008 campaign stop in Sioux Falls, candidate Barack Obama told a gathering of tribal leaders he was open to discussing the Black Hills with them.
In fact, those tribal leaders say, the Obama campaign gave them a proposal that read in part: “Barack Obama is a strong believer in tribal sovereignty. He does not believe courts or the federal government should force Sioux tribes to take settlement money for the Black Hills. … Obama would not be opposed to bringing together all the different parties through government-to-government negotiations to explore innovative solutions to this long-standing issue.”
The promise of such negotiations has Sioux leaders revisiting ideas last considered in the mid-1980s, when New Jersey Sen. Bill Bradley, like Obama a Democrat, proposed that the U.S. government return 1.3 million acres of federal forests and unoccupied park lands in the Black Hills.
and…
“That is an issue that the Supreme Court has ruled on,” Thune said. “The money was set aside and continues to accumulate interest. That, in my view, is the resolution. I don’t have any intention of wading back into that.”
and…
Asked whether he could support any negotiation between the tribes and Obama that ultimately included a return of land, Johnson’s staff sidestepped the question.
“This discussion has been going on for decades,” Johnson’s spokesperson, Julianne Fisher, said. “It is important for the tribes to first come together and then begin negotiations with the White House. To comment on a nonexistent compromise is to put the cart before the horse in this case.”
So, from Senator Thune we get a “No,” and from Senator Johnson, a spokesperson gives a typically non-committal Johnsonesque thank for you the question. It’s a lovely question, but no comment.
As Senator Thune noted, this has been decided long ago, and such talk to the contrary is silliness.
Even worse, coming from the president, it’s reckless. It moves the focus off of helping with South Dakota tribes who have overburdened law enforcement, horrendous rates of infant mortality, barely aid-station quality health care, and a desperate need for economic development to the unrealistic musings of radicals and out-of-touch liberals.
If he wants to help the tribes – why doesn’t he start with that list? Otherwise it’s just an exercise in stupidity.
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Comments
Well, if the tribes mismanage the rest of the Black Hills as badly as they have with the rez, we’re screwed.
What I don’t get is why the rez keeps voting Democrat when their situation is supposedly worse than ever.
It is interesting to note that Thune invokes stare decisis on this issue, however. Perhaps he his telegraphing that all you people who want to see Roe v Wade overturned shouldn’t get your hopes up?
I’m not going to do the research, but it might be instructive to see a count as to how many times Roe has been upheld by the SCOTUS as opposed to the various “settlements” of the Treaty of Laramie 1868 issue.
By my rough count it’s something like 20 to 1.
9:25. Right on cue. Here’s where the War College Undergrads start bashing Black people and Indians. Good job, Powers. What a uniter you are.
Also interesting to note that Sibby has this same story on his blog this morning. Could it be that Steve and Pat are back in the sack, shackin’ up again? A new twist on an old tryst, so to speak?
As long as they take frothing at the mouth loony Fleming with them.
While we’re at it, give Texas back to Mexico too. And I think the Hittites have some land coming to them in the Middle East too.
Bill, keep it on topic please.
And I’m sure Steve read the Argus article as I did.
Bill, the notation on bashing people, and Steve and I writing on the same topic are skirting it.
9:25’s comment WAS bashing. Yet the post stands, and thus requires balance. Further, I submit that your, Thune’s, and Sibby’s apparent (tacit) agreement on this topic is instructive to moderates and free thinkers of all party persuasions. Typical GOP divisiveness. An effort to create a wedge issue (stress) where indeed there is none.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/18/science/18angier.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=stress%20vacation&st=cse
In other words, I think that challenges to your party’s attempt to manipulate voters by creating confusion and fear are fair game any time such tactics arise.
Papa C., I’m thinking Texas would be better. Besides, sounds like they might even be up for it.
Bill,
This is getting really old. Johnson is pathetic and you know it. I listened to his mouth piece at the town hall last week. Not only Tim can’t answer a question on his own, neither can his spokesman. At least Thune can give a straight answer. You may not agree but at least he takes stands. You are better than what you are becoming by trying to defend his incompetence. Stop before you lose all your credability.
There has already been some land returned to the tribes in our state and in several others. Perhaps someday there will be more. Suppose I were Tim Johnson and I answered the question, “Yes. I could support such negotiation.”
What would happen next? I didn’t say I had the solution, I just said I would be willing to talk about it.
If Thune were really acting in good faith, he would answer yes as well.
Otherwise, he’s just saying that as far as he’s concerned he doesn’t even want to talk to his minority constituents about it.
That doesn’t strike me as being very caring or concerned about the Tribal communities needs and wants, does it you?
BAH. I say start by giving back Manhatten island that was swindled away for $24 in beads (yes make them give the beads back with interest) and THEN, and only THEN, work your way west.
As Thune said, the Supremes settled the issue. He should be commended for not leading the tribes on with endless propaganda. That honesty won’t buy him any votes on the rez. That’s more Johnson’s forte.
John Thune helped the Tribes get both land and money to begin work on the Wacpa Sica Reconciliation project. PP’s slight of hand here is that Thune and Johnson were not asked the same question. If Thune were asked “whether he could support any negotiation between the tribes and Obama that ultimately included a return of land” his answer would almost surely be Yes. Either that, or he has changed his mind since becoming a US Senator.
Bill you are working over time lately.
Scott, Stephie and other dems running in SD next year, best of luck….
The democracts are for health care for people perfectly capable of paying for it themselves through simply holding a job.
South Dakotans do not appreciate shirkers.
The dems want to increase our electricity bills by over 70% through a tax they justfiy will help change the weather.
Now the Dems want to give the Black Hills back to the tribes. USFS lands already belongs to all US citizens and I resent the favoritism of favoring one ethnic group(the indians) over another in America.
What else is coming?
Hey Scott and Stephie….Good luck in 2010!
You better quit your day job bill (want ever it is you do)and keep polishing these turdlike issues for your party… missed a spot bill! lol
Ahahahahahahahahahah! So funny. “Flem ball”. Hahaha! So original.
Haven’t been called that in 2 days. Polish a turd. Wow! How do you think of this stuff, man? I tell ya. So creative.
This is a tough issue. On the one hand, I think that if made an agreement giving land to the tribes, then we ought to keep our promise. On the other hand, displacing others and taking away jobs isn’t a pretty prospect.
PP – you should cut off Fleming. All he does is bash Republicans, change the subject, create distractions, and clog up all the comments. He’s a weird has-been long-haired 60s hippie doofus. Who cares what he thinks? You shouldn’t have to give him a platform when he abuses it so much.
The century plus old – U.S. Indian Treaties are a horrendous black mark on our history. Europeans took, retook & killed what wasn’t theirs. The entire reservation system is designed for failure. What other race requires an I.D. card & blood quotum to be a member? What other race isn’t allowed to own individual land? I have empathy for what the tribes went through – but it’s history. Thune called this right. Tribal people should take the money and improve their communities.
We lump all Native Americans together. Which tribe do you think should get the Black Hills back? The Sioux? The tribe that the Sioux drove out? The tribe before that?
As Obama said, let’s look forward, not backward. At least that was what he said at one time before going after the CIA, bashing Bush, and now this.
The Truth is correct. This is history. Go on from here. The tribes could do great things for their people with the money instead of dwelling on something that is not going to happen.
And it is time for the Native Americans to remember their pride, regain their self-esteem, and stop looking to the gov’t to solve their problems, and it’s way past time for the gov’t to stop treating them like wards of the state. They deserve better. It seems to me that they are being used by the Dems, promised this and that for their vote which is by and large Dem, but their situation never gets better. It’s time for “hope and change” on the reservation. True hope and change, not the slogan of the present administration.
Kylie, All of my posts have been on topic except when I was responding to one that was not. Take this one for example. Not on topic because yours has not.
Pat can throw me off of his blog any time. He knows that. And he knows I don’t care if he does. So what’s it to you? Mind your own business.
Not bad, Springer. I wonder if you could have convinced the Palestinians to feel that way about Israel, or the Black South Africans to Feel that way about South Africa under apartheid. Or William Wallace (Bravceheart) to feel that way about Scotland.
Bill,
At least have the courtesy to take a breath once in a while. Do you realize how obnoxious you become when every other post is coming from you? Especially when you stray so far from common sense to defent BO, SHS, and Timmy.
annon, when you’re in a conversation with someone, that’s pretty much how it goes. Have you ever read a script for a play? Or dialogue in a book? This is the way it looks. If you want to hear a bunch of speeches with nobody talking back, go watch the legislature or attend an AA meeting.
Ok, that’s a wrap for me on this thread. I’ve I’ve not made my point by now, I’m not going to. Carry on.
Nobody ever did answer the question of why the Rez blindly votes Dem when they continue to be in dire straits.
The reason they vote so heavily democrat is because they promise the moon and then when it doesn’t happen, they blame Republicans.
First there was Tom Daschle who could have delivered many things for the reservations.
Now the Democrats have super majorities in Congress and apparently a sympathetic President. If I were the reservations, I think I would be offering an ultimatum right about now–either deliver for us or we will finally realize that we have been political pawns all along!
It should not just be about the Black Hills. Concrete and steel cover everything east of here as well as west. Look to the five civillized tribes to see a successful native approach, not that the Trail of Tears was a good thing! My family had land stolen from them at least twice by corrupt bankers when they imigrated and during the 30’s. Probably a moot point because that land was stolen long before they purchased it. There is literally not an acre of land in this country that was not stolen from the natives as they had a choice of being driven out with nothing or taking smething and calling it a sale. The natives do not believe anyone but God owns the land. At least that is the way it used to be.
9:25’s comment WAS bashing
Bill, what part of that statement is not true? Maybe the truths hurts, but it is still true.
Did you ever observe what they did to the Yellow-Thunder Camp ground in the Black Hills when it was briefly occupied?
Did you ever drive across the Crow Creek Reservation and observe what is being done to the environment?
Bill – you need to get a job. If your wife sees how much time you spend posting, she’ll fire you from the agency. 
I saw a reference that the government has given land back elsewhere. If you explore that, you will find that those couple of events have all happened in the West. Personally, I am for fighting injustice in chronological order – fix the oldest wrongs first. Why are we talking about Massachusetts and New York and New Jersey first? there is much empathy for this cause there, except that they don’t seem to want to start with the oldest wrongs first.
Finally, as a catholic, if you get good at this, I’d like my title to a little piece of the Holy Roman Empire. We are a big family, but we can get buy with just a little chalet in the Alps
They an have the Black Hills back by getting off the reservation and being part of America.
It is constantly proven that when all of an individuals needs are met, they stop striving for excellence. Though a nice gesture by the US Government, the welfare given to the Native Americans has hurt them more than benefited them…perhaps the true meaning of the gesture!?
I don’t know if people don’t see this, they don’t care or they like it; but Native American should stop for the good of the Native American people!
Lee, the Wacpa Sica land that was returned to the Sioux Nation on the behest of Thune, Johnson and Daschle was just north of Pierre right next to Ft. Pierre Chouteau. Have you not been there?
p.s. Regarding my wife Suzie firing me from the agency, one can only hope.
Some weeks she wants to get canned, some weeks I do.
The weeks that we both want to get a pink slip are the ones when we know it’s time for a quick trip to Mexico.
Agency ownership is like the Hotel California of the communications industry.
You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave.
The Santee Sioux have taken a piece of the Black Hills with cash. The natives could have the whole darn place if they put the howly (haole) casino cash on the table. I have a native friend from Minnesota buying up his desires of the Black Hills with his 600K annual casino checks. I also have friends both native and white on the Missouri breaks who lost large numbers of acres to the dam. The whites after lengthy lawsuits recovered about 60/acre. The natives had dollars returned time after time, some recouping over 2000/acre for their lost lands. We are really paying for the sins of someones fathers.
Les, interesting point. Maybe John Thune could make us a chart showing how many times you could circle the Black Hills if you placed a billion dollars or so end to end. Ah, the magic of compound interest. A little tribal economic stimulus?
Actually Bill, I don’t think they would circle the Hills very many times as compared to going to the moon, we’d be pickin them up as fast as they could lay them down.(lots easier than picking them from outer space) btw, it was trillion dollars not Billion Bill.
Gotta laugh at Fleming, an alleged graphics expert, and his tiresome obsession with Thune’s very effective illustrations of how this county is going to hell. I for one would like to see such a Black Hills Billion (or is is trillion?) chart.
Because, because, because, because, becaaaaaause…. because of the wonderful things they does!!!
They play their ‘I visited that one tribe’ video and then play the ‘I talk to the family at the kitchen table’ video and then theirs that tickle going up their legs!!!!
I guess progressives never said their IDEAS’ were Progressive! hmmm
Has Barbara Johnson been back to the reservation to distribute winter coats and gloves since the Thune / Johnson election? Just wondering.
Les, the tribes are owed a billion dollars in compensation for the US violation of the Treaty of Laramie. They are refusing to take the money. My suggestion is, maybe they’re waiting until the kitty gets big enough, and we all get broke enough, they can just buy it all back. A little joke there, Les. (Pokes Les in ribs with elbow.)
Who says he isn’t starting with that, PP? Oh. You. Never mind.