I have a wife, three daughters, a sister, a mother, many nieces, many female cousins. I also have a son, two brothers, many nephews, many male cousins. I have good friends of both genders. So does most Americans have similar relationships so it is irrelevant to my reaction to the Ford-Kavanaugh matter.
I have a few observations I want to comment on before the hearing starts:
1. How can anyone say they believe Dr. Ford when they have heard little from her directly, what we have heard indirectly has been refuted by those she named as corroborators?
2. Rightly, we are abhorred when we hear the story of Eleanor Strubing (white) who, with ill-motive, wrongly accused Joseph Spell (black) of rape and how virtually everyone jumped to the conclusion Spell was guilty (except for the Sheriff who threatened to shoot anyone coming into the jail, he likely would have been lynched). In fact, much of the Civil Rights movement was about how Black’s were denied justice because they were presumed guilty. How is believing Dr. Ford prior to the presenting of evidence different than believing Eleanor Strubing?
3. I remember asking why we have statute of limitations and what I was told has resonated with me since.
a. The longer time passes the ability to administer Justice diminishes. Memories fade and become conflated. Evidence becomes less reliable.
b. Living with the knowledge of having done wrong is a form of punishment for everyone who isn’t a psychopath. So, is the fear of being arrested long after the fact.
c. If the person never commits another crime, partially motivated by what they learned by living with their past, haven’t they been rehabilitated? Will further punishment undo what had been rehabilitated?
d. If a person has been punished and rehabilitated, after awhile, pursuing such a person is just revenge. Our system of justice is not about revenge.
4. Similar to the statute of limitations, we have juvenile law for a good reason-people do things when young for which it has deemed should not follow them for their entire life.
5. Dr. Ford has been abused by the Democrat Senators. They knew of her charges but failed to handle the information in a way to give her justice. Instead they held the information until it was most advantageous politically and not the interests of Dr. Ford.
6. I sadly concede there are many men who never face justice for sexual assault. Sometimes because the victim isn’t believed and sometimes because she fears coming forward and sometimes because our judicial system doesn’t always get it right. Concurrently, as the Duke Lacrosse team knows, there are men who suffer greatly because of being falsely accused.
But, I do have an experience with a rape. I was the first person to see my friend, I was one of two who sat with her to convince her to go to the hospital and not to her bed where she wanted to go, I was with her until she finally returned to her room, and I testified at the trial. It is this experience that makes me want to hear her story and his response.
Justice demands Dr. Ford get what she is due. If believes she was assaulted, she has a right to ask to be heard without any prejudice for or against her.
And, Justice demands Judge Kavanaugh get what he is due- mount a defense against the charges and suffer the consequences if he did what he is accused of doing. Just because many men haven’t faced justice, there is no justification to deny Kavanaugh justice. Our system doesn’t allow “profiles” to influence justice. We don’t endorse denying a black justice because of the crimes of other blacks. Nor should we here.
It might get ugly. It wasn’t easy on my friend (or us who testified). Dr. Ford has to be prepared for it because to expect otherwise is to deny Kavanaugh the same justice she deserves. It has already been ugly on Kavanaugh.
But, as ugly as this might get, I think there are some good things to come out of this:
1. Females attending parties with alcohol need to acknowledge the biological realities men are stronger and make sure they have partners watching out for their well-being. If something happens, tell someone right away, go to the hospital.
2. Men attending parties with alcohol need to stay sober and be prepared to restrain not only their own behavior but that of others.
3. We are reminded ALL are to be considered innocent until proven otherwise. When conclusions of guilt occur before evidence is presented, overtime we will lose faith in the rule of law and the very pursuit of truth. It is unfortunate it takes a figurative lynching to remind us to respect Due Process for it is this process which protects us from mob rule and injustice.
Update after Dr. Ford’s portion of the hearing:
1. While she had some spotty memories from 36 years ago, there sure was a lot she couldn’t remember in the last few months.
2. I think it is meaningful she doesn’t remember how she left. She was miles from home and didn’t have a car. I though am not sure what it means.
3. There wasn’t a Democrat who gave any indication they desired the truth. They made it clear they wanted only her to be perceived as credible.
Update after Judge Kavanaugh’s portion of the hearing:
The first thing Leahy says is about not allowing a vote on Garland. In other words, the “justice” they were pursuing was unrelated to these charges.
And, I just have to say Jeff Toobin is absolutely the most “unjust” person here. There is nothing he would find over the top if the result was Kavanaugh not seated on the SCOTUS.
48 thoughts on ““At his best, man is the noblest of all animals; separated from law and justice he is the worst.” Aristotle”
I’m taking a pass on the circus on my TV as I type this. Facts and evidence don’t matter to the Democrats. Only winning. And if that means ruining a man and his family, well, that’s a small price for mob justice.
This is a disaster for the nation.
Cliff, to your point, I’m watching this on CNN. There is absolutely no critical eye/ear to the possibility this many not have occurred as presented. The pursuit of Justice requires one to be be blind as evidence is presented. Both Ford and Kavanaugh deserve more and better. (TJ)
Keep me informed when Ford presents facts and evidence to support her allegation. Even a blind justice can see we’ll both be waiting until the 12th of Never for that to happen.
Victim testimony is evidence in sexual assault cases.
And no state’s attorney — now or 36 years ago — would ever proceed with Ford’s shot-full-of-holes testimony..
Boy, are you wrong.
Other than on college campuses, this charge would never see the light of day in regular court.
I am taking time to hear Kavanaugh speak. His entire statement can be summed up in one sentence to the Democrats: “Go to hell!”
Other than on college campuses, this charge would never see the light of day in regular court.
I am taking time to hear Kavanaugh speak. His entire statement can be summed up in one sentence to the Democrats: “Go to hell!”
Trump picked the right guy. The dems expected the right to cave at the hint of impropriety. This guy drew a line in the sand and is sticking to it. He might not have been my first pick, but he is showing (testifying now) himself to be the correct choice.
That is entirely my take. The Dems miscalulated. (TJ)
The Republicans could have nominated Jesus Christ himself and the Dems would ruin him…they don’t care.
And, what is glaring is it is not a standard they hold to Clinton, Eliason, et. al. who more credibly allegedly did sober and as adults much worse. I am now listening to CNN talking heads saying Kavanaugh is disqualified on SCOTUS because he MAY have perjured himself yet while we have a blue dress confirming perjury AND on-the job prima facie sexual harassment didn’t preclude Clinton from being POTUS (and Eliason is still “qualified” to be Attorney General). (TJ)
It is extremely unsettling how politicians have bastardize our system of justice. Are we trying to find justice for Dr. Ford or blocking a Trump appointment to SCOTUS? It is my observation that winning a political victory at any cost is the objective of most Democrats. Congress has no intention of holding anyone accountable and the deep state will protect the status quo. What an insult and colossal waste of our time and mockery of our justice system.
It is illuminating that nearly 100% of the Democrat time has been taken attest to her credibility when they have never heard her until today and denigrate any other version. This is to be a truth pursuit exercise. But, as you assert, it is 100% an attempt to block Kavanaugh. Sad. (TJ)
The Democrats and left-wing media should all sit down and shut up! They should do the right thing. . . for a change. If that idiot Mazie Hirono can say that so can I. She is the twit from Hawaii who support Daniel Inouye, the Democrat sex abuser.
How about Gillibrand from New Yawk? She is as big a hypocrite as any other Democrat.
All the Democrats in DC are pathetic.
Hirono basically said it was about Trump. She has no desire for the truth. Blumenthal basically said during the break made it clear it was because Kavanaugh was appointed by Trump. Booker just sounded stupid. And, Harris just made a speech. This is a sham. (TJ)
1. Why won’t Republicans allow an investigation and supeona Mike Judge? The Democrats abused Ford and her claims by delaying disclosure when it could have been investigated because they wanted a ploy to delay. No investigation is on the elected abusers of Dr. Ford. No subpoena is there is nothing to investigate. Judge says it didn’t happen. I guess they could stop by and ask him to repeat it.
2. Irrelevant. Good try to duck. We should be ashamed to jumping to conclusions without evidence when Strubing was falsely accusing Schnell. Same with jumping to conclusion on Ford vs. Kavanaugh.
3. No one is in a criminal trial so statute of limitations does not apply. Nice try to duck. The principle is the same why we have to be critical with regard to her memory and account (something not evident by a single Democrat), if we truly want Justice. You want justice don’t you?
4. Would you hire a serial sexual assaulter if they have been so called “reformed”? How about a felon? First, nothing presented indicated he is serial or a felon. Do you hold the same standard for Eliason? Clinton? Ford and Kavanaugh deserve better but this belies you don’t desire the truth in this matter. You just want him denied placement on SCOTUS
5. Prior to Brett being selected, there was nothing that could be done to serve justice. His selection was announced in July, Feinstein had the letter late July, Feinstein held the accusation until most politically expedient without regard to the desires and interests of Dr. Ford. Your willingness to only look at this in this way belies you too are willing to abuse Ford.
6. And as with Bill Cosby, it’s not uncommon for people to not come forward in a timely matter. Do you support him as well? Read again what I wrote in #6. Your comment is nonsense.
1. Women should not need people watching over them. This is the problem with apologists like yourself. You are trying to place blame on the victims. We should live in a country where no women should have to fear being alone with a guy or group of guys.Are you nuts? Whether it should be that way or not, it is unwise for anyone go into crime ridden areas at night and smaller physically women to go to places where there are drunk men they don’t know without some form of protection.
2. Again, men should not have to remain sober to account for other’s actions. Why don’t you support personal responsibility? Are you nuts? We just got done watching a spectacle where a man is deemed guilty just by being charged. Further, stronger physically men have an opportunity to be a protector of the weaker and drunk. I urge men to be of the character to be sober and be that man.
3. Due process does not apply to job interviews.The principle certainly should exist with regard to treating them fair. Are you advising the ends justify the means.
General comment: Your answers to the last three belie a lack of integrity as a person. I can’t imagine a person of integrity saying what you just said. Please disclose your name so people can hold you accountable since you assert “personal responsibility.”
All bolded answers are from Troy Jones. Feel free to give your own answers
I’m a republican whose wife was raped when she was young. You bet I don’t want a sexual assaulter on the supreme court. One thing I do agree with you, a neighborhood like this in DC full of Republican apologists who put party over morals probably should require women to travel in groups. I don’t support serial adulterers either.
Bill Clinton and Trump are both disgusting human beings.
Unproven allegations do not a sex-offender make. There is no evidence, but I guess that doesn’t bother people like you. Don’t talk about the Republicans putting party over morals; Teddy Kennedy, Daniel Inouye, Lyndon Johnson, Keith Ellison, Al Franken, Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton (covering for Slick Willy), Kirsten Gillibrand (loving all over Slick Willy to get donations and then decrying him when it is politically expedient), John Conyers, all the pundits on CNN, MSNBC, CBS, ABC, NBC (except for Megyn Kelley). There was no proof except allegations from Ford’s foggy memory. Would you like your life to hinge on completely uncorroborated allegations?
I do not want a sexual assaulter on the Supreme Court either. However, I also do not want someone wrongly accused of sexual assault to be ineligible for the Supreme Court.
Wow, this poster really supports the fact that the Democrats aren’t interest in justice, just their way. “Job interview”? What an idiotic statement!
The Democrats held onto this for political purposes, and to delay now again is to fall prey to their devious and anti-American ways. Ford didn’t sound believable, and she has no evidence. Neither do Ramirez or Swetnick. The FBI should investigate just because completely unsupported allegations have been made? Sounds like the old Soviet Union. That is truly what Democrats want.
The most damaging part for Democrats was they have no answer for why they held the information from investigation AND didn’t participate in the investigations subsequent to disclosure to the Committee. (TJ)
I’ll tell you why they held onto it: when it got to Feinstein’s office she had her own people look into it. She’s got her own excavators to dig up dirt.
And she found out there’s nothing there so she sat on it until the last minute and then she sprung it at the last minute, demands a lengthy FBI investigation, and knows it’ll amount to nothing but a delay. And she thinks we’re too stupid to figure it out.
This is terrible writing, full of grammatical errors and non sequiturs.
This is an example of what a group of people will do to tear down an honorable man. Here we have a woman who after 36 years (maybe) comes out and makes this terrible accusation. She has named people who were there, but cannot corroborate her story.
I have a daughter. I have a granddaughter. I have a wife. I had a mother. I would not want what Dr. Ford claims happened to her on any of those loved ones, or anybody else for that matter.
I also am a man. I have two sons. I have two grandsons. I had a father. I would not want these kinds of claims to be made against me or my loved ones if they were not true.
Dugger, I think this is why I’m most offended the Democrats assert Ford should be treated with kid gloves. She has held this in for 35 years and an accomplished professional. She is not a snowflake. We need to get to the truth and not tread lightly. (TJ)
Lindsey Graham–Go guy!
Watching CNN. Toobin who was dismissive of any political motive of Democrats asserts Republicans is all about politics. He was almost smug thinking Kavanaugh was done after this morning. Now he is almost goofy in what he is saying because I think he senses Kavanaugh is going to be confirmed. He almost dared Collins and Murkowski to sell out women. (TJ)
I didn’t see it myself, but my colleague said he kicked butt and took names! From the bits and pieces of all that I have seen it looks like the Republicans are standing strong and the Democrats are fixated with beer. To see the Democrats acting like they are taking the high ground is laughable. Klobuchar from the Peoples’ Republic of Minnesota acted fairly respectful and didn’t come off as a moron like the rest of the Dems.
I agree on Klobuchar. She is the only Democrat who appears to be in pursuit of the truth. CNN is totally goofy. They are now obsessing over how Democrats have been treated. Toobin might be the biggest dope I’ve ever seen.
My gut on what is going to happen:
They will have an investigation which will conclude mid-week and Kavanaugh will be confirmed on next Friday.
Democrats underestimated Kavanaugh and Grassley will call their bluff.
Update: They are voting tomorrow. That means Collins, Murkowski and Flake are voting yes. Game, set, match.
Where’s the admisison of being wrong……..again?
iMO this witch Hunt, smear campaign, hit job or whatever you want to call it denigrated the political process, made credible women’s complaints more questionable, destroyed the character of a good man, made men more frightened of being wrongfully charged. In short out did nothing positive for this nation while showing the true character of most of the Democratic party. Sad.
I just want to note that right after the Ford/Kavanaugh hearing ended (9-27 @ 6:33 p.m.) I predicted the following:
“They will have an investigation which will conclude mid-week and Kavanaugh will be confirmed on next Friday.”
Well, it looks virtually certain that Mark Judge will cooperate with investigation with FBI.
This is from me. I thought I was logged in.
I guess folks from a state that kept sending swamp-critter Daschle back to DC can’t be too upset that the senator from Arizona turned out to be a Flake.
What are you talking about or inferring?
I’m saying that, with Senator McCain’s passing, Flake is the most likely “republican” to pull something like this. If they can actually come up with something in 5-7 days (either way), no real harm (except to the process). But we’ll be having the same discussions next Friday, as new claims are floated. They are trying to delay until 2020 (not just after the midterms) and Flake was either played or is a willing conspirator. I don’t see how the good people of Arizona can support him.
I had similar misgivings prior to moving to South Dakota — how could such good people continue to send Tom Daschle to DC to represent them? How could they not see through his campaign persona and determine what a blemish he was to their reported values?
Got it. I agree. When Flake made his one minute speech at the end of the hearing, I knew he knew what he SHOULD do but he didn’t know how to get there. He needed an out. Even after he announced his decision, I was skeptical. I was rooting for Kavanaugh to call for the investigation when the Dems offered a week because I knew it would take one to get the fence-sitters to commit and it was limited in time. Now, we have an investigation and the Dems in a week will claim it is truncated.
The critical piece is there is a vote for the election so this is “litigated” before the American voter. (TJ)
I am just afraid that this furtherdelay will just give the Dems time to plot another scheme or drag up some more paid accusers. Just VOTE!
paid accusers? Do you have proof?
I have as much proof of this as their is proof of Ford’s claims. My word against yours.
I have a foggy, recovered memory. I’m not sure exactly when or where or by whom, but I’m 100% positive an accuser was given 1st class air travel, luxury hotel rooms, security, posh meals, global celebrity & adulation. She was lionized as a courageous hero of the people & offered a lucrative book contract. She appeared on tv talk shows and received standing ovations. She got tenure. She became the highest paid professor at her university. She is now wealthy. I only wish I remembered more. Maybe it was 1991? Anyway, I see no reason to get hung up on pesky, real-world specifics. Flawed as it may be, my recollection serves a larger truth.
Believe the source or not. It is up to you. Then you can research further if you want to find the truth. If not, don’t research further.
You really need different sources. It is no wonder our country is so divided if this is your definition of a source.
Read what I said. Believe or not. You wanted proof. I gave you evidence. Accept it or refute it, but do not tell me I need different sources. I believe these guys before I believe CNN, MSNBC, NY Slimes, or Washington Post. I can find about a hundred instances where these people were either wrong, or just plain made stuff up or posted stuff they KNEW to be inaccurate. If you choose not to show this is wrong, then I suggest you follow Sentator Hirono’s advice that she gave to men.
Dems are harping that this is a “job interview”.
Yet, it’s largely Dems who are banning employers from asking applicants about their criminal backgrounds! The old ban the box movement!
I have no factual evidence other than their sworn testimony as to guilt or innocence but someone is either lying or delusional or both is a fact. I also have zero proof that my Independent friends will actually never vote for a Democrat again; but that is what they have recently told me. Mid-Terms regardless of Kavanaugh will find Republican gains in the US House & Senate and no Democrat will win a Statewide election in South Dakota. Write it down, Charlie Hoffman said it.
“And, what is glaring is it is not a standard they hold to Clinton, Eliason, et. al. who more credibly allegedly did sober and as adults much worse.”
Al Franken was sacked for much less than what is alleged against Kavanaugh.
Franken chose to resign to offenses he admitted to and for which there was credible corroboration. But to your point, I didn’t think Franken’s known sins warranted expulsion and he could have fought had he wanted to.
Do we agree, then, that in Franken’s case, the 20+ Democrats who called on Al to resign were holding him to the same standard that they are requiring of Kavanaugh?
Not even close. Franken admitted what he did. They have not asked Eliason to step down as DNC Vice or AG candidate when there is material evidence and corroboration. There is no corroboration of her story and her “witnesses” corroborate Kavanaugh and in fact the preponderance of both actual and circumstantial evidence tilts to Kavanaugh. What is being done to Kavanaugh is what was done to black young men who so much as looked as a white girl- the girl is believed no matter what. (Troy)
Is there a reason Troy can’t use the reply button like everyone else, rather than editing his opinions into other people’s comments? It’s seriously annoying even when I agree with him, and I usually try to avoid commenting on his posts because of it.
I am sorry it annoys you. It is not my intent. My reasons are three-fold:
1) I think it better to count posts from people other than myself on my own thread. If a post only has three commenters, I didn’t want to inflate the # if it has three responses by me.
2) When I hit reply, it becomes a comment on the front page of DWC as a new comment on the side banner (or whatever it is called). I was trying to not steal the thunder of others by not having my comments to my own thread push them to the bottom.
3) Because the direct reply gets smaller like an outline and sometimes it can get hard to read on smaller devices, I thought it would make it easier if commentary got long and involved. Plus, I thought fewer #’d posts would make it easier on everyone in general.
Again, I’m sorry. If that is the consensus, I’ll stop doing it. (Troy Jones)
What are your thoughts on the Jesuits wanting Judge Kavanaugh’s nomination withdrawn? Do you agree with them that:
“For the good of the country and the future credibility of the Supreme Court in a world that is finally learning to take reports of harassment, assault and abuse seriously, it is time to find a nominee whose confirmation will not repudiate that lesson”
I don’t find Justice in calling for someone to be martyred. In fact, the person calling for the execution is always by definition Unjust and grave matter. I reject their call.
Plus, it is ironic hearing it from them since they haven’t called for the martyrdom of the Bishop’s where there is more than hearsay accusing them of either having participated in evil, covered up evil, or being silent in the face of evil. (Troy Jones)
Huh? I don’t see the words martyr or execution anywhere in the AP article I linked. Nobody’s dying. My best guess is that you’re using the term metaphorically and likening Kavanaugh’s nomination bring withdrawn to him being put to death for a worthy cause. Am I understanding you correctly?
However, I don’t see the Jesuits making that connection at all. They are saying that if Senate Republicans confirm Judge Kavanaugh “without this allegation being firmly disproved, it would hang over his future decisions on the Supreme Court for decades and further divide the country”. That shows that their focus is on the good of the country, not on making a “martyr”.
And I think they are right. It would hang over his future decisions for decades.
1) Yes, it is at minimum a metaphoric martyrdom- His career would be sacrificed for what his OPPONENTS have deemed a worthy cause (I don’t think it serves that cause at all but actually hurts it because it brings into question future more credible accusations). Plus, the Church finds some Offenses against the Truth (rash judgment, calumny, false accusation) to be grave matter. Thus, the martyrdom of ones reputation by false charges is not too far off. There are grave sins short of murder.
2) Just because the Jesuits are missing that connection, doesn’t mean it it doesn’t exist (an argument Jesuits have made to atheists for centuries- “Just because you don’t think God exists doesn’t mean He doesn’t”.
3) The suggestion Kavanaugh must firmly disprove a negative is a logic fallacy, an intellectual endeavor not often attributed to the Jesuits.
4) It is ludicrous to think an unsubstantiated accusation from one’s teen years hangs over a person’s life work for decades. A significantly more serious sexual charge against Clinton didn’t hang over him for a week.
Can you imagine the kind of conversations taking place at USD’s School of Law department? I wonder if discussions about due process or innocent until proven guilty are being had?
Does Myanna Dellinge teach any classes? I noticed she signed a letter with 600+ other lawyers opposing Kavanaugh. Maybe she skipped class on the day corroborating evidence was the topic?
No way did a USD law prof sign a letter against Kavanaugh? Really? What a nincompoop. The place is on the verge of being closed down by either the creditation folks or the legislature and one of them decides to go on record against over half the people who pay his/her salary?
Of course this idiot has the right to express an opinion. But, so do the people of this State have the right to shut the place down.
A smart person would see the big picture- “Nobody in DC will change their mind with or without my signature but people in SD will.
A moron says- “The world ends if I don’t sign this letter.”
At minimum, the nincompoop needs to be fired today just for proving to the world she/he is a moron.(Troy Jones)
Thanks for the dialog. I’m glad they had an FBI investigation and it cleared his name. I pray he provides many years of wise judgment for our country.
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