Governor opposes House Bill 1235 to end student vaccination requirement

The Argus is reporting that Governor Kristi Noem has come out against House Bill 1235 which proposes to end students required to be vaccinated, and to make it a class 1 misdemeanor to require mandatory vaccinations:

Gov. Kristi Noem says she opposes a bill eliminating the vaccination requirement for students.

“Vaccinations have literally saved millions of lives over the years. That is not something that I can support,” she said during her weekly press conference.

Read it all here.

78 Replies to “Governor opposes House Bill 1235 to end student vaccination requirement”

  1. John Dale

    Disclaimer – I’m not a butt-kisser.

    Noem makes the SD GOP vulnerable to a SDDP takeover of the executive branch of the state.

    Last year had she signed the hemp bill, SD farmers would have been able to capitalize on the high prices and use the proceeds to drive down cost and drive up economy to mitigate the market volatility we’re seeing now. If I were her, I would have bought a new pair of gloves and helped plant, grow, and process. Had she pulled the trigger, the legislature lined-up a great shot for SD farmers. I don’t think SD farmers can shake the feeling that she made a very bad decision on their behalf for dubious reasons (prohibition is BS).

    Her administration can’t seem to take an effective nuanced position. On the vaccine issue, is she taking a “safe shot” over a ridge line?

    Walk with me: Is the meth coming from the oil patch? Hmmm ..

    Then, in a classic “plug the extension chord into itself”, the state’s economic “plan” to build workforce housing (read: servant quarters) is about building houses to help the economy, but isn’t a big segment of the rural economy the builders? How big of a pop could possibly generated by having the workers build houses they’re supposed to inhabit and pay for with the wages from building the houses? Are hospital workers going to make-up the gap and cover the construction labor and oil patch work force when the houses are done and the oil patch dries up (SD just installed the largest solar array in history and Tesla stock still hasn’t paid-off for SD short sellers).

    Lastly, “we’re open for business” is inviting all manner of livestock excrement factories to leave big steaming piles of .. you know what .. in SD for SD would-be hemp farmers to clean-up after. #FACEPALM

    Noem’s policies are all over the place – very little cohesion and her staff doesn’t seem to have the ability to track toward a big vision that will help the average South Dakotan.

    I wonder if there is a viable conservative that will run against her.

    Reply
    1. Anon

      Probably one of the most ignorant, uninformed, out of touch commentary I’ve seen on this blog. On the hemp issue alone, Governor Noems stance taken one year ago has been vindicated as witnessed by countless articles from across the country of huge issues for law enforcement. Never mind the fact that the market for the product has left producers with no place to take their crops.

      Reply
    2. Michael Held

      You are wrong on hemp! The horror stories of no markets and processor bankruptcies/not fulfilling their contracts are everywhere. Why would SD want to spend $3.5M to open such an industry.

      Reply
      1. John Dale

        “Why would SD want to spend $3.5M to open such an industry.”

        If public safety would get their hands out of the kitty, we wouldn’t need that kind of investment.

        Not signing the hemp bill last year only saved us from our selves, and saved our farmers from profits.

        Translation: “Thank goodness we didn’t have to pay the 3.5 million we said we’d have to pay ourselves” is like plugging an extension chord into itself.

        Hog prices are up. Hog prices are down.

        Can’t catch a fish if you don’t have your line-in.

        Reply
        1. Anon

          You are a special kind of stupid if you think any producers anywhere made a profit from hemp, with the exception of the greenhouses that sold seed.

          Reply
          1. John Dale

            Dear Anon;

            “You are a special kind of stupid if you think any producers anywhere made a profit from hemp, with the exception of the greenhouses that sold seed.”

            1 – wave your hands and call someone names .. the quickest way to lose the argument

            2 – you assert “nobody made money” .. first, if true, unreasonable financial burdens placed on hemp operations by state law is a retarded entrepreneurial process

            3 – your assertion is absolute, untrue, and quite silly

            4 – in any case, requiring profit immediately is like a chicken farmer lamenting that the eggs aren’t laying eggs, yet.

            Hog prices are up. Hog prices are down. Don’t listen to an uninformed clown.

            Begone, troll.

            https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidcarpenter/2018/08/28/kentucky-farmers-hemp-more-profitable-than-tobacco/#4f0590df100f

            Reply
    1. Anonymous

      Yes. Why does she insist on doing the most unpopular things?

      Tell SD that everyone is on meth
      Veto Hemp. Who knew people cared about this issue?
      Force CAFO’s on SD

      What is going on

      I’m concerned she is polling in the 30’s and would lose to Billie next time.

      We need better issues.

      Reply
  2. Anne Beal

    Thank God the Governor is opposed.
    The anti-vaxxers are the most misinformed bunch of loons, blaming all their problems (I actually have just seen a FAcebook post by somebody who blames the Hep B vaccine for her allergy to toothpaste) on vaccines.

    On the other side of the argument are educators and healthcare professionals who understand how vaccines work and how disruptive epidemics are to education, who know the anti-Vaxxers are nuts.

    In the middle are a few libertarians who believe vaccines are a good idea for themselves and their children, who choose to ignore the fact that since 1874, governments have been passing laws to protect children from negligent and abusive parents. Failing to provide a child with medical care constitutes child endangerment. Child endangerment can result in criminal charges and termination of parental rights. If you don’t vaccinate your child you might as well leave him home alone with a box of matches to play with.
    It’s unfortunate that when an unattended child dies in a fire, parents are prosecuted, but when a child dies of a preventable disease, the parents get a pass.

    Reply
    1. John Dale

      “It’s unfortunate that when an unattended child dies in a fire, parents are prosecuted, but when a child dies of a preventable disease, the parents get a pass.”

      Your faith in Pharma is of biblical proportions.

      Reply
  3. tara volesky

    Government should not be interfering with good parenting research and judgement. Again there are neglectful parents, but don’t penalize the majority because of the few. The rule to play a HS sport was,you had to get your children a flu shot in order to play. I refused the shots. One size does not fit all.

    Reply
    1. Anne Beal

      Bad parents are the reason that laws have been passed to make education, car seats, medical care (including vaccines,) food, shelter and supervision mandatory.

      The libertarians who think government should allow bad parents to do whatever they want to their children are ignoring society’s vested interest in child welfare and public health.
      An unvaccinated child is an endangered child AND a threat to others, especially to people with compromised immunity. We are surrounded, daily, by fellow citizens who are receiving immunosuppressant therapies for a variety of conditions. That’s what REAL research will tell you, Tara. Nobody wants your little pathogen-incubator around. Keep him confined to the house for everybody’s sake.

      Reply
      1. John Dale

        “Bad parents are the reason that laws have been passed to make education, car seats, medical care (including vaccines,) food, shelter and supervision mandatory.”

        What is this, Russia?

        Nearly 2/10 of SD high school students do not graduate. Some of those that do are swept under the rug. There is no guarantee of a good life outcome if you go to school. We have The Internet, now, and children should be returned to their parents from the social engineering class in this country.

        The family farm made America great, not vaccinations, public schools, car seats, and hospitals.

        Reply
    2. John Dale

      “you had to get your children a flu shot in order to play”

      Nothing more than an ante. The flu shot doesn’t work, and pharma is indemnified from damages.

      Read the vaccine inserts, not just the information sheets. The inserts come in the box, the information sheets are usually handed-out by the nurses.

      Reply
  4. tara volesky

    Pat, we need to get Lora Hubbel’s view on this issue lol. I am no expert on vaccinations but whatever happened to common sense and moderation. I am glad the government doesn’t require me to get boosters and flue shots….yet. So, Anne, do believe adults should get re-vaccinated and up-dated?

    Reply
          1. Anonymous

            You are entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts, Tara. Your pleas for respect are nothing more than a naked beg from conspiracy theorists who dont like being called out on their bs.

            Reply
            1. John Dale

              And all the poor, downtrodden, ignorant masses huddled together, hands clasped, puppy-dog eyes upward shouting to their intellectual Anonymous god, “my hero!”

              As near as I can figure, Anon, you’ve just slipped into a pile of isht and stained your own pants. You haven’t really refuted any concerns about vaccination.

              For instance, why WOULDN’T we require vaccine manufactures to pay for insurance?

              People at the farmers’ market have to buy insurance. Nearly any other type of business has to have insurance. Why not vaccine manufacturers?

              Waiving your hands and puffing your chest does not repute credibility to your beliefs.

              Before we can eat, you have to bring something to table!

              Reply
              1. Anonymous

                Yes, farm to table is a perfect analogy for the highly regulated pharmaceutical industry. No issues with this non sequitur.

                Reply
  5. Troy

    Thank you Anne.

    Child protection is the same reason I supported HB1057 and oppose HB1235.

    The number of laws we have to protect children from bad parents and bad doctors is in the hundreds, if not thousands.

    And the argument parents and doctors are impeccable is giving them omniscience only reserved for God.

    Reply
  6. Michael Held

    You are wrong on hemp! The horror stories of no markets and processor bankruptcies/not fulfilling their contracts are everywhere. Why would SD want to spend $3.5M to open such an industry.

    Reply
    1. John Dale

      The enforcement requirements were manufactured; an excuse.

      If our government was conservative, smart, and nimble, it would have legalized hemp, not required policing, and freed our farmers to make money.

      “as witnessed by countless articles from across the country of huge issues for law enforcement”

      This contradicts the testimony in our own legislative session this year from officials in other states.

      Noem is making law enforcement out as a free rider.

      Her leadership lacks vision, cohesion, and positive strategic implications.

      Politicians migrating from the HOR to executive rarely succeed. The model for success in the HOR is to pander. The model for success in executive is to lead.

      I love my state. I respect my leaders. I respectfully declare that the empress wears no clothes.

      That is all.

      Reply
    2. tara volesky

      The state shouldn’t have to spend anything, just let the the farmers decide if they want to take the risk. They are just growing a crop like anything else. Hemp is harmless.

      Reply
  7. Troy

    Dale,
    As has Held, I was around when Jerusalem Artichokes were the rage. Hemp has all the same “smells.”

    Since the marginal income (based on best of market and price predictions/forecasts) is miniscule compared to current crops, I not only don’t see the income benefit to farmers relative to risks, there is no ancillary jobs not offset by loss of jobs related to growing the existing crops, I see no reason for the rest of us to bear any costs to accommodate this.

    Thus, at minimum, legalization should include a fiscal impact statement and the costs transferred to those who decide to get into this business.

    Reply
    1. John Dale

      My point is that the administrative costs are manufactured and artificial. Additionally, the prices will vary so short term analysis is convenient and self-serving to the prohibitionists who are likely also vested in competing products (big pharma and alcohol).

      Reply
      1. Troy

        John Dale,

        The real cost is the burden (financial and otherwise) on law enforcement. I’m not that concerned with the administrative costs.

        Reply
        1. John Dale

          You presume that hemp SHOULD be policed. It should not.

          “Law enforcement has a greater burden” is a false premise. All hell would most certainly NOT break loose by allowing farmers to plant, grow, and sell.

          South Dakota’s approach to hemp is overbearing and counterproductive and harmful to farmers.

          ““Make the most of the Indian hemp seed, . . . and sow it everywhere!” — George Washintgon from one of his letters to his farm plantation field manager William Pearce on Feb. 24, 1794.

          Reply
        2. John Dale

          Personally, I don’t dispute the fundamentals of vaccine science entirely. Flu vaccines don’t keep-up with mutations while the oral Polio vaccine seems to have been a slam dunk. Nuance is required with something like this, especially out of leadership that is heading into the ditch (Tucker Carlson is right).

          To me, the vaccine ingredients need improvement, and taking indemnity away from manufacturers might be just the ticket to entice the innovation.

          https://abcnews.go.com/Health/parents-delaying-giving-vaccines-children-study/story?id=69141494

          Reply
  8. Anonymous

    We need some sort of governmental agency to tell these idiot bumpkin farmers which crops they should and should not grow. Amirite Troy and Mike?

    Reply
    1. Troy

      No. But, if there is no clear benefit to the state’s economy AND it transfers significant cost to the taxpayer and society, they should at least pay for the cost.

      Business which transfers cost to society is receiving a subsidy and not consistent with free enterprise.

      Reply
  9. Steve

    Has Jackley said anything about this bill? I agree with Governor Noem.about this, so I’d be interesting to know if I’d have agreed with Governor Jackley too or if this might finally be the first way I can be glad she beat him in the primary.

    Reply
  10. John Dale

    The lack of an informed and nuanced position on vaccinations from our Governor leads diminishes my confidence in her administration.

    Hemp is a side issue (but an important one).

    Reply
  11. Anonymous

    Anne says, On the other side of the argument are educators and healthcare professionals who understand how vaccines work and how disruptive epidemics are to education, who know the anti-Vaxxers are nuts. But doesn’t drop any names.

    And, why is it that Prof. Heidi Larson, Phd stated, at the Globaal Vaccine Safety Summit, health professionals on the frontline are starting to question vaccines and the safety of vaccines. Why would she say this? Doesn’t this go against what Anne says?

    Here are some name drops of professionals concerned about today’s vaccines:
    Dr. Theresa Deisher, Phd
    Dr. William Thompson
    Toby Rogers, Phd, MMP

    Reply
    1. Anne Beal

      You can watch an interesting documentary called “Pandemic.”
      It describes the efforts to produce a universal influenza vaccine.
      The research involved costs a lot of money. The way to get that money is to create awareness of the problem: that the influenza virus mutates rapidly, so rapidly that a vaccine produced over the summer is out of date before it can be shipped out in the fall.
      The statistics provided by the researchers to justify their grant proposals are then used by anti-vaxxers to back up their claims that the flu shots don’t work.
      Actually they do work, people who get the shot get milder cases of the flu than people who don’t, and are more likely to survive. Even with herd immunity, 60,000 people in the USA die of influenza every year.

      I read a post on Facebook this week by someone who claims the polio vaccine is not effective, that the statistics were skewed to make people think it works. Really.
      When their doctors tell them their vaccinations are not the cause of their acne, obesity, allergies, autism, marital problems, or bank overdrafts, they claim their doctors are lying to them.
      The anti-vaccine movement has become a religious cult. If unvaccinated people were not such a threat to public health, it would be tempting to let Darwinism kill them off.

      If we are going to allow unvaccinated children into the public schools, then the other parents need to be notified that there is a disease vector in their child’s classroom.

      Reply
      1. John Dale

        I’ll do one better.

        Let’s shutter public schools, empower teachers to be roving consultants paid 3x what they make now, fix the economy by de-balling rogue fascist corporations, create stockholder liability (torte reform), create and enforce profit indexes so part time work supports a family, and allow parents, teachers and children to study together in their living rooms.

        In this scenario, teachers (especially the ones pushing so hard for vaccinations, now) can get vaccinated.

        Your logic supports this. The schools are a disease vector. Target them. Your proposal to put little yellow vaccination stars on unvaccinated children strikes me as podium-pounding insane.

        Do you think that pool chemicals helped eradicate polio? Did requiring doctors to wash their hands help reduce the impact of the flu? Did awareness about sharing needles help with Hep? What is your stance on mother’s milk?

        Everything wants to save us, but first they need all of our money, our undying loyalty, and our children. It’s an old script, bud.

        “anti-vaccine movement has become a religious cult”

        I would say the same thing about Pharma stock holders (but I would actually be correct). Except it’s worse since there’s money involved .. the organization of anti-pharma parents are motivated by the safety of their children. The cult of Pharma stock is motivated by the money that can be generated by 1) creating fear of unstoppable disease, 2) reducing awareness of gut health and organic food in strengthening the immune system and fighting disease, and 3) fantasizing about sticking a sharp object by force into millions of kids and charging for it.

        Your advocacy-energy would do more good by requiring schools to spend their vaccination money on scientifically formulated immuno-diet (lots of fermented foods, water, elimination of processed sugars, and vitamin supplementation).

        Lastly, I think there is an argument to be made for the isolation of immunocompromised individuals rather than fostering a christ-complex on behalf of big pharma.

        Reply
  12. mhs

    There is no evidence whatsover that hemp will produce any meaningful farm income. Less than 125,000 acres planted nationally vs 43 MILLION acres of crops planted in South Dakota alone. If 1% of crop ground in SD went to hemp it would quadruple national production. Just look what happened to yellow pea prices over the past couple years after more farms planted. Prices tanked even before the Chinese stopped buying due to the tariff war.

    Chalk up hemp in the same list of farm scams as Jerusalem aritchokes, white mushrooms, blah, blah, blah. A few promoters make money and producers get creamed.

    Reply
    1. John Dale

      “producers get creamed”

      I would think that the spirit of SD producers is that they would prefer to succeed or fail of their own volition, work ethic, and cleverness, devoid of any kind of nanny (male or female).

      The “we’ll save you from yourselves” cost SD farmers about a hundred bucks a pound.

      Hog prices are up. Hog prices are down. Ain’t gonna catch no fish without a line in the water.

      Reply
      1. mhs

        John, your zeal is admirable, but, a scam is a scam. Farm wonder crop scams are especially virulent in tough economic times like we have now on the farm. I litigated hundreds of farm bankruptcies, saw a handful promoters get rich buying deeply discounted PIK (remember those: another USDA all-star disaster?) certificates from desperate operators, saw profitable, producing hog barns converted to mushroom grow rooms (never harvested), and so on.

        While most people can make their own decisions, there are always some that are desperate, exhausted and scared: those who laws like this are there to protect.

        Reply
        1. John Dale

          Likening hemp farming to a scam is disingenuous.

          From my perspective, after studying the hemp/cannabis issue for well over 20 years, the proposed regulation will inhibit the profits of farmers unduly.

          Walk with me ..

          Consider the expense of the inspections, the Gestapo-like nature of the State’s desired level of access to private property, the requirement to hire more law enforcement to police something that never should have been prohibited, the state’s use of the hemp issue to build more drug lockers (hemp is most certainly NOT a drug, but then neither is marijuana or THC in my opinion), among other things.

          SD hemp is being sabotaged as shadow-influence seems to be trying to leverage it for profit by scaring-up opposition.

          Reply
          1. mhs

            Perhaps true, John, perhaps not, time will tell. None of that matters, so long as it is illegal at the federal level. The biggest issue is no national bank can bank a hemp producer, period. I’ve worked for two of the largest ag banks in the US. Policy is absolute: no bank services for hemp producers, period. As soon as we learn he’s in the business, his lines must be called and his accounts must be closed with very short notice periods.

            You’re spinning conspiracy theories about unseen forces working to restrict profit when the greatest force of all, the federal government, says absolutely not. A farmer losing his access to operating capital is catastrophic, there’s no coming back from that.

            Reply
            1. John Dale

              1 – Hemp is LEGAL at the federal level.
              2 – Noem’s veto is on record and very visible.

              “As soon as we learn he’s in the business, his lines must be called and his accounts must be closed with very short notice periods.”

              Do you believe this would withstand a test in the courts? I do not believe this would stand-up in court.

              But then, a cash business is a good business, so banking access forces an increase in currency velocity. This is very, very good.

              Landlords will accept cash payments. Banks accept cash payments for loans. The grocery store accepts cash payments .. at lest for now.

              I would applaud, in the process of rebuking hemp farmers, if banks closed and forgave all of their outstanding loans to those same hemp farmers.

              It’s time to stop rigging the game.

              Prohibitionists are clearly on notice.

              I think in the longer term, anyone promulgating prohibition of cannabis does so at their own economic and social peril.

              Reply
  13. Troy

    John Dale,

    To MHS’s point: when one extracts the market-use and impact of hemp production toward “seed” for expanded production AND the actual commercially viable products used by consumers, both demand and its price is extremely inflated (just like the Jerusalem artichokes and the centuries earlier Tulip bubble).

    The only economical “rationale” for legalizing hemp production is to overwhelm anti-trafficking efforts of marijuana and ultimately lead to pot legalization.

    In other words, it is a scam to trick farmers to produce an economically non viable product and a scam to trick anti-pot voters to unintentionally contribute to pot legalization.

    Personally, the above dishonesty overwhelms any libertarian inclinations and the failure for the “hemp industry” to bear the costs transferred to the taxpayers and government infuriates me.

    What I do though give the “hemp industry” credit for is it’s another IQ test of our legislators. You guys did a good job.

    Regarding the Governor, I praise her for her initial resolve AND, when she saw a majority of Legislators had succumbed to the trick, did a good job to at least minimize the effects. It takes a wise person to know when to hold ‘em and when to fold ‘em.

    Reply
    1. John Dale

      Troy;

      I am aware that hemp and MMJ are steps toward full legalization. I don’t like the MO, but I will not fight that process. I’m choosing my battles carefully, and I sleep well at night being a public advocate of doing legalization the right way (CC4L’s proposal cuts to the chase), but I’m not going to fight to undo a victor for legalization in what has amounted to a very ruthless battle against cannabis users and advocates (sending a cannabis user to prison should get an authority a quick trip to hell).

      That being said, it follows from the data that cannabis should be legal and accessible to adults, and that law enforcement should not attach riders onto the production and sale of cannabis products.

      Ignoring meth while going after cannabis is like beating up the weak athematic kid on the playground, thumping the chest, while the bully roams around and continues to bop kids on the head.

      “economically non viable”

      The price per acre to produce hemp is artificially inflated because bad information was input to the process (hemp does not need policing, it is not dangerous).

      Funding law enforcement, drug dogs, forcing growers to fund their own tyranny (full and unfettered law enforcement access to private property at any time without notice is offensive) and upgraded drug lockers is an abuse of an infant industry. What is required of SD political leadership now is good business sense. Like strapping strapping a saddle on a colt, the irrational fear of hemp is swaying the back of SD hemp business plans. Then, the establishment, after killing the business plans with unnecessary totalitarianist police-state-like costs, has the audacity (or stupidity) to say it is not economically viable.

      Hemp is just not that difficult to produce when the government gets out of the way.

      Meanwhile, back at the ranch, who is putting what up their noses? It isn’t the bird of paradise, I assure you.

      Lastly, would somebody PLEASE get Governor Noem a cheeseburger? It’s winter for God’s sake .. if she’s lost her appetite, a quick trip to MN, WY, ND, CO, MT, or NE might help.

      Reply
  14. Troy

    John Dale,

    At one level, hemp is an amazing product with diverse uses. Thus, I’ve actually look at this from an investor standpoint and deemed all hemp products (ie. rope, durable clothing, fuel, etc.) having extremely small niche markets or wholly non-viable because in each niche there is a better alternative.

    For instance, while there are a few uses of rope where nylon is not desired (ala cotton twine), the market is very small and in most cases cheaper cotton twine is adequate. The size of market where natural is needed/desired and strength is extremely small. Especially when nylon’s cost is comparable, its strength is more uniform depending on what is desired, and it doesn’t absorb water (which can effect its weight and reliability).

    I’d like to see a single hemp product which is commercially viable in large scale. Just one and I’ll show you a superior and cheaper alternative. Few things are economically viable when there is a cheaper and superior alternative. Like one friend said to me, even a hippie has only one shirt made from hemp.

    For this reason, it is a scam to get farmers to cooperate in a deceptive strategy to legalize marijuana. In my world, nothing noble or just comes from overt and intentional deception.

    Reply
    1. John Dale

      “it is a scam to get farmers to cooperate in a deceptive strategy to legalize marijuana”

      Prohibition is the scam (law enforcement, private prisons, “addiction” treatment, asset confiscation, social persecution, economic exclusion).

      Non-hemp uses of cannabis will have to be the byproduct of legalization. This argument has already been lost by prohibitionists. We can waste time and money fighting it till the end, but if this were jujitsu the prohibitionists’ collective knee is getting destroyed. Sad, true, but so be it.

      *snap*

      We’ll have to agree to disagree.

      Reply
    2. John Dale

      “I’d like to see a single hemp product which is commercially viable in large scale”

      I have little patience for charades like this one.

      Because the market is being undermined by a weaponized legal and prison system, it is not a fair and objective comparison unless and until prohibitionists, eager to wipe the egg from their faces and cover-up their crimes against humanity, give-up and apologize for the short-sighted lie they’ve perpetrated on the world through the prohibition of this founding resource.

      “Make the most of the Indian hemp seed, . . . and sow it everywhere!” — President George Washington

      Why do prohibitionists have such a retarded outlook on cannabis?

      Reply
  15. Troy

    John Dale,
    Unless you are admitting legal hemp is the means to get legal pot, let’s just discuss hemp on its economic viability in the marketplace.
    Otherwise:
    1) If hemp is the means for legal pot, it is dishonest to trick farmers to produce a product which will be detrimental to their finances.

    2) And, you are admitting hemp has no economic viabilityi in the marketplace.

    Reply
    1. John Dale

      “it is dishonest to trick farmers to produce a product which will be detrimental to their finances”

      The crop testing burden adds zero production value to hemp crops. Since it is not needed (hemp is as dangerous as spinach), to presume farmers are criminals and pre-load the process with the penalties (testing fees) is immoral and dishonest.

      The value chain for hemp is not static. Over time, methods improve, innovations occur, values increase, and the market works.

      In your view, it is required to admit that because of a psychological defect (succumbing to reefer madness), the hemp market might fail because it would be made to fail (imposing non-value add expense) to save face about cannabis criminal justice malfeasance.

      Your argument that hemp must prove it is profitable before letting the market decide while imposing government sponsored overhead is communism, comrade. See “command economy”.

      Reply
  16. John Dale

    Hemp is a distraction from the key issue here .. vaccines do not work, and vaccine companies should have their indemnity stripped to give damaged customers due recourse through sensible torte.

    Reply
      1. John Dale

        In the last 3 weeks I have made a very strong case to strip vaccine industry indemnity.

        I do not see the point in repeating all of that, and you should be able to scan those arguments in my comment history.

        Reply
        1. Anonymous

          There is a difference between saying “Vaccines don’t work” and “Vaccine indemnity should not be a thing.” You keep conflating those points and should knock it off.

          Reply
  17. Troy

    JD,
    Quit changing the subject:

    Tell me a single commercial product which is economically viable. Just one. Raw material producers (e.g., farmers, mining or companies) seldom create markets but satisfy markets.

    Again, unless hemp is just another jerusalem artichoke scam or a tool to get marijuana legalized, it should be easy for you to describe an end market to absorb the production.

    I’m just asking for one viable product. It should be so hard to get a straight answer. Unless your non-answer is the answer.

    Reply
    1. John Dale

      I’m not changing the subject. We’re both making inductive arguments in support of our respective positions. My position on cannabis happens to be supported by a nation-wide trend.

      Here’s an interactive map (you have to check a couple of boxes to see the results on the map):
      https://norml.org/states

      You don’t seem to be acknowledging that the state’s actions make the hemp industry unviability more likely, while unviability of the market is the basis of your strongest argument.

      But this thread is not about hemp .. that is a side issue demonstrating a certain lack of nuance and incompetence of the state’s chief executive with respect to cannabis.

      She’s not correct about vaccines, either, because it’s important to be nuanced – it isn’t as much about arguing for or against vaccines. The lack of nuance for Noem’s admin is that they don’t want to stand-up against big pharma and force them to take responsibility for their product (and it’s damage).

      The only people that “like” pharma are their stock holders.

      Reply
    2. tara volesky

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      SDFU President Doug Sombke testifies before the SD Senate Ag and Natural Resources Committee today. “Farmers look for ways to diversify. As President of SDFU, we support the passage of HB 1008 to legalize industrial hemp as one more way for farmers and ranchers to diversify.”

      Reply
  18. Troy

    JD,

    You brought up hemp in context of impugning the Governor’s judgment on vaccines is similar to her judgment on hemp. Thus, it can be applied in reverse.

    So, let me ask the question differently, assume there is no “state actions” which make hemp non-viable (as it is in some states where hemp is legal and there is little actual production, I might add), what is a single commercially viable product from hemp where the potential market isn’t a very small niche?

    Just one. I’ve never gotten a single hemp supporter to be able to give me one. Never. I just want one.

    Reply
    1. John Dale

      Troy;

      When the Model-T came-out, what was the market for a 1970 Dodge Dart?

      You’re question is flawed, but I have to admit it does favor your position if you stipulate that an answer to your question somehow precedes hemp’s success.

      CBD is a hemp product. In your view, is CBS a viable product?

      https://WashingtonsReserve.com

      Communism requires the type of pre-planning you require.

      In a free market, hemp producers can grow their product, and the viability of the product is an empirical question. It should not be a requirement that hemp should need validating predictive math from intellectual saviors before they can get to work. That kind of predictive barrier is a hallmark of a pre-planned, communistic economy.

      It’s unfortunate we need a culture war to beat-back totalitarian/communist government to secure a free market opportunity right here in South Dakota.

      Reply
    2. John Dale

      I think I’m most disappointed with the performance in the SD Hemp market for the period 1/2019 to present. This period with henceforth be known as that one time when the SD legislature saved SD farmers from making more money on hemp because they didn’t want the hippies smoking.

      *puffs marlboro while taking a shot of beam*

      Reply
  19. John Dale

    “The mining companies didn’t start mining ore for cars in hope a market developed”

    Did you consider how this supports my argument?

    Free market risk built this country. Communism would tear it down. #legalize

    Reply
    1. Troy

      Not even close.

      Two realities:

      1) Pot is not not legal in SD which implies they are willing to bear enforcement costs.

      2) Hemp legalization increases enforcement costs and diminishes the effectiveness of those efforts.

      It would be free market if hemp production either didn’t transfer costs to the taxpayers or was willing to pay those costs. Your ignoring the difference in how the free market acts differently for raw material producers (react to existing markets and demand) vs. market end products (create and modify demand) belies either an ignorance of the difference as it applies here or an intentional attempt at deception.

      Since you seem willing to deceive farmers to produce a product without a viable end-market (or at least can’t even enumerate one viable potential end market and unsupported assertion “the SD legislature saved SD farmers from making more money on hemp”), it appears you do know the difference but try to obfuscate the truth.

      In short JD, the credibility of the pot legalization advocates is severely destroyed because of their willingness to scam farmers (they only need a few to be tricked to have their desired effect) to advance an unrelated agenda (pot legalization). I could so much more respect the pot legalization effort if they were honest.

      Reply
      1. John Dale

        Farmers have been scammed out of growing hemp and other cannabis products for nearly 100 years, Troy.

        The state has a choice.

        1 – create expensive policing requirements and use the proceeds to grow facilities and personnel

        2 – let farmers loose and be patient when taking rent and reaping ROI

        You have a very low opinion of SD farmers if you consider the hemp issue as effective deception. You don’t think they know full well what’s going on?

        🙂

        Farmers fight for this republic. As near as I can figure, they’re fighting for hemp and cannabis, and they are sick of big government neocons belittling and underestimating them, forcing their way onto private property, and using their hard work to waste tax dollars.

        —–

        In conclusion, two points. First, Epstein didn’t kill himself. Second, to increase the effectiveness of vaccines which do not work, vaccine manufacturers should be forced to take responsibility for their product by having their big government, too big to fail indemnity stripped from them.

        Reply
  20. Troy

    JD,

    Three things are true in the thread:

    You keep repeating yourself this will be good for the farmers with no evidence of how it is good for them, you can’t even list a single hemp end-market product which is or might be economically viable, and you link the hemp legalization and pot legalization.

    Since I was around when the Jerusalem artichokes scam occurred (there was then also not a viable end market product) and these arguments are exactly the same, I have discerned hemp is exactly the same scam.

    Whether the ensuing hemp fraud will cross over into criminal fraud or just civil fraud, I hope with the legalization the state Securities division and will be more proactive on policing hemp fraud and inviting federal trade enforcement as this will trade will cross state lines than they were with Jerusalem artichokes.

    One of the legitimate roles of government in a capitalist economy is aggressive pursuit of fraudsters.

    Reply
    1. John Dale

      Your “Jerusalem artichokes” argument is a false equivocation.

      Hemp != artichokes

      Legalization of cannabis can be considered a byproduct, not a core focus, of hemp legalization.

      I am okay with that since, once the rest of cannabis becomes legalized, hemp will still be valuable.

      But really, we need to understand that big Pharma is probably afraid of having to pay their own insurance (like farmers have to), and of cannabis becoming legal.

      What a wonderful world ..

      Reply
  21. John Dale

    For more in Hemp (sorry this got so off topic, Pat .. my fault), I suggest checkout out the Tara Volesky interview at PlainsTribune.com

    Have a super evening and stay safe in the storm!

    Sincerely,

    John Dale

    Reply

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