When dense becomes delusional

Get your mind around this one from liberal blogger Cory Heidelberger. This is an exchange that compares Daugaard’s education proposal to the way Obamacare was implemented.

More left wing mewling

Ignore your feelings on HB 1234 for a moment and read the absurd lengths Cory Heidelberger goes to in making the poster child for government-mandated-legislative-oppression seem like it was open, reasoned and cooperative (everything it was not).

How many of us think Obamacare was a process of “yearlong negotiation and compromise?”

If I could channel the founder of this blog for a moment… Cory – quit your mewling.

47 Replies to “When dense becomes delusional”

  1. insomniac

    My gosh Cory, what exactly are you on? I can’t believe the lengths you will go sometimes to push factual inacuracies.

  2. Clay Bill

    The process used in presenting health care reform to American citizens was WAY more open than what’s going on in South Dakota with the governor’s proposed education plans.

    How many town hall meetings has the governor held to pitch his plan? In fact, is any citizen input welcome in Pierre, especially when GOP lawmakers simply change laws during the 11th hour rather than letting the public vote on them? Pierre is quite happy to simply force Daugaard’s plan down our throats.

    Why are you suddenly asking us to ignore HB1234 for a moment? Simply so you can take a shot at Cory? Stop being petty and keep focusing on the wrong path our state’s education system is being forced to take by Daugaard and GOP lawmakers.

    http://voices.washingtonpost.com/capitol-briefing/2009/08/health-care_reform_town_halls.html

    1. name

      This is a great example of how extremely partisan Cory is. He has blinders on. I love how he dreams up $15 million in teacher bonuses are worse than Obamacare which forces every American to buy health insurance.

      HB 1234 while I don’t agree with it is just a chance for Cory to buy better insurance if he does a decent job at teaching.

  3. oldguy

    Why even worry or care what Cory says as you can always predict with very few expectations what he will say. He is just like Bob on the right , really far out there and sure everybody else is just plain dumb. Having said the above I do, yep I do, agree with him on this.

  4. Bill Fleming

    It (PPACA) was the product of DECADES of negociation and compromise, with a great many of the ideas in it being GOP ideas (mandatory participation, inclusion of insurance companies, etc.)

    The clean idea would have been Medicare for everybody. Universal Health Care. The reason it is the way it is, is because the Dems were trying to incorporate GOP ideas so Repubs would vote for it.

    They shouldn’t have bothered.

    A camel is a horse designed by a committee.

    Oh, and “Bill Clay,”
    I knew PP.
    PP was a friend of mine.
    You, sir, are no PP.
    LOL.

    1. Arrowhead

      Bill,

      What’s in the water you are drinking? Cornhusker kickback… reconciliation… Rham Emanuel confronting legislators while in the shower for added intimidation…

      Obamacare is a boondoggle 1,000,000,000 times HB 1234. It is not even comparable. Cory is absurd once again. Cory continues to jump the shark on a daily basis.

  5. Troy Jones

    Bill,

    While I appreciate to the degree Obamacare incorporates an idea or two supported by Republicans, I wish it would have taken the worst and considered our good ones, which never got a hearing during passage of Obamacare.

    Cory,

    If you think that was open, remember your own Speaker said they had to pass it so we could know what is in it. Or the failure to have the deliberations on C-Span as promised but all behind closed doors without a Republican member of Congress in the room.

    You know what is in the education bill. You just don’t like it.

  6. Troy Jones

    I think you figured it out but I meant to say wouldn’t have taken the worst.

    While I’m sure we have some disagreement on what didn’t get considered, in the end the result is the same– a pile of dung.

    1. MC Post author

      HB1234 is a becoming a boon doogle, It needs to be killed then set up for a summer study. The goal has been set, and a great starting point. This is something that shouldn’t be rushed, but we can’t drag our feet either. let’s take the time to get it right the first time.

      Obamalacare is a disaster. There was closed door hearings. The vote took place in the dead of night, no one read the entire bill before it was voted on. This bill shouldn’t even be a law. This one bill alone does more damage to the fabric of what makes America great then the terriost attacks on 9/11/2001.

      Cory should really wake up and take a look around.

      1. Anonymous

        Right on MC. There are too many issues addressed in HB 1234. There are a lot of good things in the bill, but there are also a lot of other things that should not have been in there at all. I hope they kill it and bring the separate issues back so the legislature can deal with them on an individual basis.

  7. caheidelberger

    Whatever. HB 1234 is still the monster in the room we need to kill. You’ll need to talk to your own GOP leadership about killing the Tea Party measures offered by Betty Olson et al. to block ObamaCare.

    1. springer

      Cory, you are acknowledging that what we had implemented with last session’s legislation was Obamacare. The legislators and the governor and lt gov can’t seem to get that through their heads. Several states have refused to implement Obamacare, even though it means giving up fed dollars. I wish SD elected officials were strong enough to stand up to bullying tactics and the bribery of federal money.

  8. Bill Fleming

    There are some things in it that are good and that I suspect people won’t want to give up. No pre-existing conditions, no lifetime cap on benefits, donut hole rebates, no recissions, more children and young adults insured… on the whole, most people are better protected health care wise than they were before.

    1. duggersd

      Bill, at what cost are those coverage coming? Preexisting condition coverage is costing about twice what the Administration said it would. See the Washington Post for that story. No lifetime cap on benefits? Again, what is the cost? All of the things you mention come at a great cost. There is a reason why a mechanic will not put a warranty on a car with a leaky head gasket.
      The point is, you cannot get something for nothing. As people find out what the costs are, they are going to become less inclined to support it. That is one of the reasons why the plan hides the “costs” in premiums paid by employers. And if it is such a good thing, why do most Americans want it repealed?

    2. springer

      Better protected?? With what? Gov’t dollars from a gov’t fast approaching the cliff with regard to the fed debt? With the promise of “free” or govt subsidized health care that is free until we run out of other people’s money to fund it? If it was so great, why the need for secrecy, bribery, and lies in order to get it passed? Why the actual truth for once from Pelosi’s lips that we would have to pass it to see what was in it?

  9. Troy Jones

    Bill, most of what you mention could have been accomplished by the HOP slot more efficiently, effectively, and cheaper with GOP ideas and using principles of insurance.

    1. 73*

      cory & bill,

      HB 1234 gives teachers $15 million more dollars in their pocket.

      Obamacare makes American’s pay more for insurance.

      You do the math. I don’t like either bill but if you think they are comparable or HB 1234 is worse what the heck is wrong with you?

      1. Bill Fleming

        73*, what’s wrong with you?

        Corey’s original point was that there is no comparison between the two, and I certainly haven’t argued that there is.

        Do you not know what the word “inapt” means?

        (See main post, Corey’s reply to Scott, first line.)

            1. duggersd

              I’ve met him. He is not a bad guy. I disagree with most of his philosophies, but that does not make him a bad guy. While I believe he is misguided, I am sure he believes I am misguided too. But overall, he is as normal as most of the rest of us are.

          1. Bill Fleming

            Guys, give us a break. If you are going to insult someone personally, use your real name. Otherwise, you are cowards. Oops, too late. You can’t come out now. You’ll have to explain your former chickensh*tness.

  10. Duh

    I’d sure like to be Coryheidlebergerbergerwithfries’ employer. posting slop on college time. Then again, he’s probably tenured, has 5 kids in his french class and has all kinds of time to sputter socialist views. No wonder he teaches french, i.e. socialism run amuck with an economy which is tanking. Wine and cheese that…

  11. Bill Fleming

    It is my impression that Mr. Heidelberger has done as much, if not more than anyone else in the State to help both teachers and legislators come to grips with HB1234 regardless of which side you are on.

    Further, he’s also helped educate the general public, allowing robust debate on his website with any and all adversaries.

    In short, he’s done a yeoman’s job of citizenry in that regard, and should be saluted for it. South Dakota needs more courageous minds like his.

    …oh… and fewer “Bill Clays” who hide behind the curtains throwing spitballs at them.

  12. Pierreite

    Bill,
    Always a pleasure to read your insights.
    I believe many Reps just can?t get behind an idea that was Finally done by a Democratic. A fair market is the best way to handle healthcare and I see many other ?Republican? philosophies throughout Obamacare. To the critic about needing to read to understand what the bill said, can you fully digest a 2000 page document in an area that is not your expertice (health service provision, payment, research, etc, etc)? It was bunch of people that looked at other countries, evidence-based studies, what wasn?t known but needed to be learned, etc., etc., and did the best they could to do right by the people. The Reps wanted to posture and obstruct as they?d learned to do. Dems won control because Bush screwed up bad and they could do it without the Reps in the room. That?s politics. If the Reps had actually TRIED to do something about healthcare before it got this bad, things would look at lot different.
    In the end, the mandate is constitutional, it will continue to be the law of the land, the flaws with Obamacare continue to need to be vetted and fixed, the States need to prepare, and as most people learn about Obamacare-channeling Sally Fields—?they like it! They really do!? I?ve studied every aspect of this issue and Obamacare will work. All sides need to work TOGETHER. So quit whining about the past and move on.

    1. Bill Fleming

      I agree, Pierette. We finally have a framework upon which to build. It doesn’t make any sense to tear it down and start over. In my mind, the best “fix” would be to add Universal Health as an option and let people pay the tax if they wanted to. It wouldn’t take much to write that little addendum. It would probably fit on one page.

      1. Les

        I think you hit the nail right between the eyes my friend. We’ll fix that 2000 page monstrosity with a 1 page addendum, about the length of a repeal. 😉

    2. duggersd

      It is yet to be decided whether the mandate is constitutional. I was just reading an article from the Institute for Justice who filed a brief making the argument the individual mandate would make contracts unenforceable. http://www.ij.org/freedomflix/65 It is an interesting argument. One thing is true, if the individual mandate is constitutional, then the Congress can force us to buy anything. Even a Chevy Volt.

  13. Doug Wiken

    Pierreite pretty well nailed it. The primary problems with Obamacare are there because of arrogant, retrograde, Republican obstruction concerned only with stopping anything which might give Obama credit and support.

    1. Ymous

      doug
      That’s just crap. It’s a democrat bill and you own it. 55% have consistently opposed it and last I checked Obama received over 50% of the at election time. S do the math or do i need to draw you bs your spewing.

      You libs love to site polling data when it’s to your advantage but when it’s not then conservatives are racists or biggots or haters or all the other labels you throw out. Please get a grip or educate yourself a bit. Wow!

  14. Clay Bill

    Getting back to HB1234 (it’s amazing that most participants in this blog so easily focus on petty individual insults rather than try to discuss something substantial) I find it amazing that some commenters think the bill is ok because of that $15 million for schools.

    Remember last year? The governor and Legislature stripped $55 million away from our students? education. This resulted in 465 teachers being laid off across the state. This year, Pierre leadership proposes a mere 0.8 percent increase over last year?s cuts. To put things in terms that are easier to understand, public education in the state is currently being funded at about the same levels of a decade ago. And, in fact, the Legislature is breaking the law. State code requires that state aid funding increase annually by 3 percent or the rate of inflation which ever is less. During the last year of the Rounds administration, state aid was frozen. Last year it was cut by nearly 10 percent.

    The $15 million figure is the amount of money Daugaard claims he will scrape together over the next three years simply to fund teacher incentives. No talk of ever coming up with $55 million, the amount school districts need to simply see their funding return to the same level following a year when state aid was frozen under Rounds.

    Daugaard is hardly a friend to education, or to teachers. Why he believes teacher tenure (continuing contracts) needs to be eliminated is rather baffling, because during his first year in office, he greatly thinned teacher ranks in South Dakota. Of course, many of those were our best teachers who decided to take their talents and abilities elsewhere rather than put up with SD’s BS. I imagine that trend will simply continue as Daugaard and GOP lawmakers continue to muck things up.

    Why are you all wasting time childishly insulting Cory when all of this is going on?

    1. Ymous

      Why does it always have to be at the state level? Why can’t districts raise what they need at the district level and stop re-distributing money across the state as they see fit. Is ag land across this state being valued at the selling or income levels? I know my commercial property is at 3 times the levy rate. I thought we believed in local control and we fight income re distribution? There are other solutions to fund schools then just going to the state.

    2. Anonymous

      Because Cory is absurd.

      He personally trashes Jenna Hagger and several other GOP candidates just because he feels like he can.

      I don’t need to personally attack him but his ideas and slanted view of the world are so silly that they are fun to laugh at.

  15. D.E. Bishop

    Ymous, I think it is important to clarify your position. You said: “I thought we believed in local control…”

    Local control, at its best, resides in an individual and family. Correct? Yet Repubs want to invade a family’s doctor visits and wedding vows.

    Ymous, do you really want each district to fund their school locally? Do you realize what that will mean to most SD schools? Massive, massive losses in funding. Probably massive school closings.

    Right now, some students in the Newell school district, where I used to live, have two choices when it comes to getting to school.
    1. They can drive every day. It’s a 90 minute trip one way, about 80 miles. Think about doing that on $4 gasoline.
    2. Another option frequently used, is renting a house or room in town for their children. Families are thus broken up every school year. The children might be staying with other families Sunday night through Friday afternoon. Or the family rents a house that they can ill afford, and the mother lives in town with the children, while the father stays on the ranch.

    (I’m talking about all ages of children, including little ones. And ranches are extremely labor-intensive in the winter.)

    Think about these things Ymous. I’m interested in your response.

    1. Ymous

      Its a combination of both. I own farm ground as well and know the rates. Your re working of my statement is typical liberal re direct. I NEVER said that a district should do it on its own. I said addditional revenue sources like properly valuing ag ground. Local districts can raise revenue through a opt out our making sure the value of real estate is properly valued. The state by law must provide their share. Everyone knows what ag ground in their district is selling for and what their being taxed on. I’m just asking is the district that is requiring more state money looking internally at all options and if they think there values are fair and don’t want a opt out why should the rest of us have to pay more when they wont.

      Waiting for you now?

    2. Ymous

      Drs. visits and wedding vows? What are you smoking? I didn’t comment on that. Don’t distract. Stay with me here and keep your liberal talking points away from this post. Stay focused, I know you can.

      1. D.E. Bishop

        Ymous, you said, “Why can?t districts raise what they need at the district level. . .” That’s sounds like local to me.

        In your ensuing comment you said: “I NEVER said that a district should do it on its own.” Then what is the difference between “district level” and “local?”

        Then you said, “The state by law must provide their share.” So when you said that they ought to “raise what they need at the district level.”, you meant plus state aid? I hope you can see why I’m confused and asking for clarification.

        Ymous, you said, ” I said addditional revenue sources like properly valuing ag ground. Local districts can raise revenue through a opt out our making sure the value of real estate is properly valued.”

        West River ranch land is valued waaaay lower than East River farm land, and that is accurate. It takes 10x more acres to raise a cow/calf pair WR than it does ER. That ranch land has one ability – grazing for livestock. It’s too dry and infertile for any crops.

        (There are some areas where small grains are grown. That’s mostly along Highway 20 around Bison and Prairie City.)

        I urge you to do a bit of traveling West River between the Missouri and the Black Hills. It’s beautiful country, and there is next to no farming. In fact, there are thousands of idle acres of grass, gullies, hardpan, prairie dog towns, ravines, etc. All that results in a very small tax base.

        You won’t see much wealth in ranch country either. There is likely to be a big pickup to pull a large livestock trailer. The car will be older, as will the other pickups. There will be a couple of old tractors for making hay. That’s about it. Only on those few small grain farms will you see big tractors with cabs and AC pulling huge drills and tilling equipment.

        Schools West River are of smaller size and more expensive, lacking economies of scale. Everything has to cross greater distances, therefore all freight costs are greater. School busing is significantly more expensive because they cover so many miles.

        The school basket ball team rarely has less than a two hour drive to any away game. When the Harding County Ranchers come to the football playoffs in Vermillion, they drive something like 400 miles!

        Ymous, your argument is not unreasonable for much of the state, but it doesn’t work West River. In many ways, WR is a different world from ER.

    3. springer

      “Local control, at its best, resides in an individual and family. Correct? Yet Repubs want to invade a family?s doctor visits …”

      Uh, small correction here. It’s DEMS that want to invade a family’s local/personal control of their own doctor visits via Obamacare. And the invasion and control of my entire health care options dwarfs any of the left’s concerns with the prolife attempts at education regarding abortions.

      1. D.E. Bishop

        Springer, I have a couple of comments regarding this post:

        1. Repubs have been consistent in wanting a large share of control with a woman’s health exams and medical options, including dictating how a doctor must respond to her patient. They want to codify what kind of medical procedures she must have and where she gets her information. That is highly intrusive, regardless of what the Repub goals are.

        2. The ACA will allow many of us to have medical care. There is no downside to that.

        I have a question:
        How is the ACA going to invade your doctor visits and dictate your care and your doctor’s decisions? (I mean literally, factually.) Thanks.

  16. D.E. Bishop

    I followed the Montana Cowgirl link and read it.

    That he is a judge, and is really only upset that someone forwarded the message so that he got caught . . .

    . . . I just don’t have anything adequate to say to that.

    Outrageous? Shameful?
    Nope, those words aren’t adequate, but they are the best I can do right now.

  17. D.E. Bishop

    Wow. I don’t know how my above comment ended up here. Guess I need to be more careful about the tabs I’m clicking on. Sorry. Ignore it entirely.