Where do they think the state money comes from?

Okay — so it just may be the way the story was written……but a story about the cuts to education funding from Pierre on KELO had me scratching my head:

new report shows South Dakota schools are falling further behind in funding and more districts are relying on taxpayers to pay for education.  (emphasis added)

Gee, here I am thinking funding from the state of South Dakota also came from taxpayers — oh wait, SD gets money from the Federal Gov’t that must be it…..so where do the Feds get their money from….oh that’s right — the taxpayers.  I guess back in my day they didn’t explain the distinction like they do now.

49 Replies to “Where do they think the state money comes from?”

  1. Guard

    Yes, but where does the majority of that federal fudning come from…South Dakota taxpayers? Hardly. For years most others states have footing our bill. South Dakota puts in way less than it has received historically.

  2. caheidelberger

    Actually, it’s just the way that opening sentence is written. Slow down, read the article, and you learn that we’re talking about how our irresponsible state legislature is forcing local districts to provide more of the funding on their own. When Pierre drops the ball (the KELO article goes on to point out that we are dead last in state share of education funding), we create more inequality in education, as poorer districts end up with poorer schools. State support (and federal support, which is not the focus of the KELO article, but is how other countries prevent rich-poor gaps) is essential to maintaining equal educational opportunities for all South Dakota students.

  3. Les

    Guard, your statement is continually regurgitated by those who have no other noise than to clang the gong.

    South Dakotans pay our share. We are fortunate enough to live in a sparsely populated state of considerable land mass which the fed regulates infrastructure such as US highways and interstate, telcom, reservations, agriculture, and you put that ratio on the wall as we don’t pay our fair share.

    What a load you haul. Those millions of folks whom you claim pay our share utilize our infrastructure by the millions. The citizens of SD could not begin to impact the roads for example to the degree that interstate traffic(transiting traffic not just I-90/I-29) does and it sounds to me like you think they should be able to transit our state, wear the roads out and our little population should foot the bill.

  4. Voter

    Schools SHOULD be funded at the local level! They should also be GOVERNED at the local level. We don’t need the STATE to tell us who what where and when we need to educate our coaches and families about head injuries–for pity sakes! Parents should be the ones looking out for their own children! If education were funded by a tax break or rebate for every student–and the parents were able to choose just how to spend those dollars–education in South Dakota would improve immeasurably–and we would educate our students better on fewer dollars with better teacher’s salaries! (and far fewer administrators!)

    1. MC Post author

      Voter may be on the right track here. Schools should be funded and governed locally, wages set by their respective school board.

      But to what standard should our schools be teaching to? Should every one who gets a diploma be eligible for entry in to an ivy league school or even a state university? Should they be ready to enter the work force the day after graduation? Should they be able to read, write and preform arithmetic? Should students who graduate should know MYSQL / PHP programing? Should every high school be teaching to the same standard?

      School board look to the state to set those standards. If the state is going to demand a set of standards, well, the state fund the schools to meet those standards.

      Somewhere there is this thought that more money will help make education better. The school district that my kid goes to (IMHO) one of the best. Not because the teachers are paid more (they’re not) or they have the most updated facilities (they don’t), because the teachers care about their students. Some of the teachers here grew up here, and graduated from the same school they are now teaching at. If you were to ask them why they continue to teach there, keeping in mind, they could be earning more elsewhere, the answer is pretty much the same, this is their home, they like it here, they are proud it, and this is their way of making their community the best place to live.

      The last point, we’re broke. Every state department got cut. The current situation in Pierre and Fort Pierre and points down stream is going to really hurt the state as we recover from this flooding. The state can’t give money it simply does not have.

        1. El Toro Loco Grande "The Big Crazy Bull"

          Hmmmm, so that means the state was NOT in a crisis like Ben Nesselsnuffleupigus & Blathering Bernie claimed we were in? Huh! You mean the governor and the other legislators were only trying to reign in our state spending so we don’t end up like those great Democratic controled states that are doing so well (MN, NY, CA, IL)? The way our country is doing after 6 years of Democratic controlled Congress?

  5. Les

    We conservatives are no better, my aunt and her family thinks some greater conservative American leader is going to save our country.

    Our country will be saved by control being handed back to the locals, in every area possible and taken out of the hands of the few. That is my interpretation of the core Tea Party plank. You can read our history for the rest of the story.

    1. anon

      If the Federal government is telling the states how to run their business it won’t matter how great the city councils are… you need a good conservative leader at the top and a buch of them in DC so that Washington doesn’t destroy states rights through legislative process and judicial appointments.

  6. caheidelberger

    MC: South Dakota has the money. Our statewide income never dropped during everyone else’s recession. The wealth is in hands that apparently we don’t want to touch.

    Les: What a load yourself. Sure, lots of out-of-staters drive on I-29 and I-90… but whatever disproportionate use you can calculate there is washed out by the disproportionate gain we get seeling those folks gas, burgers, and trinkets at every stop along that road.

    Guard’s point remains totally valid: South Dakota does not pay its way. South Dakota depends on federal largesse that is much larger than the amount we pay in. To say we pay “our fair share” requires redefining “fair” to mean Minnesotans and New Yorkers ought to pay for all of their own services plus one-third of ours. We’re apparently unable to produce enough goods and services and taxable wealth to pay our own way, so we must rely on the kindness of our more successful fellow Americans.

    And no, schools should not be totally locally funded, not if you want to avoid rampant and entrenched economic and democratic inequality.

  7. Les

    Corey, you are in dreamland…trinkets at every stop(like every 60 miles a town?) and great money being made on all the traffic, not just the I-90 and I-29..what a wonderland we live in……How about Minnesota where there is a town every three miles…or Manhattan? We citizens of SD don’t begin to make a drop in the bucket of the wear on our roads as the present example compared to those trafficking through our state. That is the federal road revenue.

    The rez, what is your complaint there? Tell it to the little Indian children, you want to take their money and tell them to get off their butt and get to work?

    Ag? Tell your family in ag how little value they have because the Feds subsidize the rest of the nation with a cheap food policy sending our best products out of state.

    Telecommunications? Tell our local phone companies how they’ve done it all on welfare dollars while interstate business from coast to coast have taken our dollars for their products because a system was in place called universal service..universal service designed for high cost areas of low density populations so interstate commerce could move bilaterally.

    Lastly Corey, tell me where you feel you are not being taxed enough, and wish to make up for it and I will match you 2 dollars for every dollar you wish to add to your tax burden.

  8. Voter

    Who ever said that everything has to be “equal”?? That is so stupid. If one area school has a great ag program and another has a great Math program–and if sports were taken OUT of the schools and done locally–then with open enrollment every family could CHOOSE the school that best meets their needs. Of course sports would have to be managed by municipalities–because otherwise schools are chosen–not for education but for winning a game.
    There are families that would be good with a bit of travel to get the program that they want. and if we do away with the whole EQUAL thing then we don’t have to duplicate programs –and choose which one won’t be funded–because no school can do GREAT with every single program.

    1. anon

      Sadly, you’ve skirted close to the real issue here. Schoolshave no hope, irregardless of how much money they have, of giving our kids a better education until the parents give a damn.

      If the scenerio you outlined would ever exist, guess which schools would grow…. the ones where the town provided the best sports programs!!

      Many parents are so shortsighted that they care more about their child’s success insports today, rather than their long-term success in life. Until we change that way of thinking, our kids will continue to suffer…. even if the state spends $1 million apiece on them.

  9. Al Novstrup

    The federal government spends a dollar for every sixty cents that it collects from the tax payer. So nearly every state gets more than that state pays in federal taxes. Don’t forget that the taxpayers of South Dakota and the taxpayers of the United States are on the hook to repay the borrowed 40 cents plus interest. By the way the national debt is $14.4 trillion dollars and it is increasing at $1.5 trillion per year. If this new debt per year is divided equally amoung US citizens the new debt per year is $20,000 per family of four.
    Are you getting value for your $20,000 per year in new debt. How do you plan to repay your $20,000 of debt or do you plan to let your children and grand children repay the reckless spending by Washington politicians?

    1. Les

      With our manufacturing off shored to China, how do we employ and grow our economy. Oil and ag cannot support everyone. My fear is, those capable of making a 20,000/year payment may soon join the ranks of our entitled.

      Our country has turned into pigs squealing at the trough for more. When I was told of a relative in California needing work, I replied there are great jobs out here in the oil field for guys with his talent. Oh but he doesn’t want to leave Sacramento. Cool, stay at the trough and wait for the slaughter. Take a good look folks, The Times, They are a Changin.

  10. MC Post author

    Where is the money that you want to give to the schools, Cory?

    I have noticed that you have mention school funding getting cut, what about Medicare funding? Schools have a reserve, plus they can ask for an opt out, or make some cuts. Some Medicare recipients don’t have reserves, nor can they go ask for an opt out, what can they cut, food, heat? Cory where is your outrage over leaving our seasoned citizens without adequate healthcare?

    If the state has the money squirreled away some where like suggest, show us where it is at, I know at least three legislators who like to know.

  11. caheidelberger

    Senator Novstrup is confused. He appears to be talking about deficit spending, which is a whole ‘nother issue. Read the real numbers here, Senator. This summary chart of FY2005 shows 32 states receiving more from Uncle Sam than they pay in. 32 out of 50 is not quite “nearly every state.” The 17 states subsidizing the other 32 include population centers New York, California, Florida, Massachusetts, and Texas.

    Les, now you’re just wishing. Show me some traffic numbers. How many miles by local drivers, how many by out-of-state drivers.

    1. Name

      The other 18 states that don’t take more than they pay have other problems but they are happy to pay SD to keep Cory off their backs…

      Trust me they think it is a great deal and we could probably get more money if we knew how much it was worth to them that this argument distracts Cory.

    2. Les

      Corey, showing you some miles by local drivers? How many miles driven by my local VW does it take to compare with the trucking industry/mile/mpg/fed fuel tax at 5mpg versus 35/mpg at 3000 lbs versus 80,000 etc?

      There are many variables to be argued here but the fact of the matter, the fed fuel tax that comes out of SD pumps is never seen in any of your equations. I never see the rez dollars separated out from your numbers. I never see the world wide food costs charted in your spreadsheet against the US cheap food policy in your analysis of all those ag subs coming across our borders. South Dakotans have always paid their share if you would look at all the numbers.

    3. I Wanna Be Elected. . . Alice

      I feel exactly the same way about the top 5% of income tax payers versus the bottom 50% of the population that pays no income tax. They are paying way too much of the share and the bottom should pay their own way. I think Cory, if given the chance, may have a brief moment of thoughtful clarity. . .and then the fog rolled in.

  12. Al Novstrup

    Cory, I am disappointed in your weak rebuttal. Your link is to 2005 data. The deficit spending has dramatically increased since 2005. If the US government spends more than it collects from the taxpayer (which it does to the tune of $1,500,000,000,000) then almost every state can receive more than its taxpayers pay in taxes. Your argument that South Dakota taxpayers receive more than the pay is valid if the total amount spent is equal to the total amount collected in taxes but your position ignores the $1,500,000,000,000 per year in defict spending. Maybe you can ignore the $1,500,000,000,000 but your children and grandchildren won?t be able to.

    Here is a link to a more balanced article on the issue.

  13. Epistemology

    Little known fact.. South Dakota’s relationship with the Feds is just a little uneven. We get 2 or 3 dollars from the Feds for every dollar we send back in federal income tax… But for sure, I agree with you guys, we need to balance this darn national budget! No more funding for future projects at the School of Minds! No more federal grants for all of our kids at SDSU learning how to take over the family farm! No more free grazing! No more Mount Rushmore! No more Ellesworth, ICOR, Poet or Raven! Why do we have two interstates?! There are only 700000 people here! If we want an interstate the state should pay for it!

  14. Epistemology

    Al, that article fails to address a very important component of this discussion. It neglects to take into account the direct impact the disbursement of federal funds via employees and contracts have on our local economy. Why would happen to the Rapid City economy if they shut down Ellesworth?

  15. El Toro Loco Grande "The Big Crazy Bull"

    Folks throwing out numbers like monkeys throwing fecel matter. To those monkeys and that feces, how much does the federal government “give” to SD for our treaty obligations? How much federal tax is collected from fuel sales? When the big spread sheet is filled out, clearly SD gives more than it gets. Seems some folks are confusing apples, oranges, and feces. The good Senator clearly has a clue. The rest? Baaad monkeys!

  16. Norvstrup

    Anyone who thinks Al Norvstrup knows his numbers doesn’t know Al Norvstrup. He fabricates his way through most issues. I’m not going to waste my time looking up how to prove him wrong now, but I know based on his public comments in Aberdeen that he fudges numbers because he doesn’t think anyone is capable of calling him on it. I remember he sent a mailer against Al Huerth saying Norvstrup was a big supporter of K-12 education because he voted for the final appropriations bills, failing to account for the fact the the appropriations bills stiffed public education. He’s a cheat.

    1. Les

      Al is not wrong in stating the Feds are spending beyond their revenue source from every state in the union and how that affects the appearance of SD being a welfare state.

      If you’re not going to take to time prove something, your blather is meaningless. You probably didn’t take time to vote either.

  17. Al Novstrup

    Rules for liberalism.

    1. Personally attack anyone that you disagree with.
    2. Avoid facts and call names,
    3. Fail to know how to spell Novstrup and Hoerth.
    4. Hide behind a false name
    5. If you can’t defend your position go off topic.

  18. anon

    Maybe Hoerth will come back for round 3?

    State Senator REP 03 Al Novstrup 5281 59.93%
    State Senator DEM 03 Alan Hoerth 3531 40.07%
    State Senator REP 03 Al Novstrup 5872 54.97%
    State Senator DEM 03 Alan Hoerth 4811 45.03%

    I’ve always wondered why we don’t have the House at 2 year terms and the Senate at 4 year terms. Why do these people need to run so often?

  19. Nobstruck

    Puh-lease. Norvstrup trots out phony numbers all the time. He’s not even trotting out proof that all states receive more than they pay, he’s just saying its possible because of the deficit. If his numbers are always right – and no one thinks Novstrup is an ineffective blowhard – then why couldn’t he stop productivity from coming into fruition? This is big-boy math, and Norvstrup just isn’t capable.

    1. Name

      Novstrup wins overwhelmingly in a Dem district in Aberdeen.

      A HUGE Dem Teacher named Al Hoerth lost to Novstrup by 10% and then nearly 20% 2 years later. Obviously if Democrats in Aberdeen are siding with Novstrup over one of the more typical Libeals who is a yes person for teachers then I think his #’s must be right.

  20. anon

    If memory serves me right Novstrup was a science teacher before he became a successful small businessman…

    Al is a good servant.

    1. Nobstruck

      Ha! Al was a teacher, and couldn’t hack it. I was a paperboy when I was young, that doesn’t mean I claim to know what its like to be a reporter. He’s a glutton for PAC money and takes thousands of dollars from the state Republican party – and all for being one of the most ineffective legislators around. But, he’s on a short leash and does what he’s told, so the people of Aberdeen can be proud of that.

      1. Stace Nelson

        Sen. Novstrup’s 2011 legislative record http://legis.state.sd.us/sessions/2011/MemberBills.aspx?Member=10 Of note, he was the primary on two MAJOR bills that were passed into law that have a major impact on open government & the protection of women’s rights from coercion.

        He testified in House Judiciary on SB 101 which won overwhelming support in the Senate and flew through the House. He was clearly intelligent and I found him to be a fella a guy could have a beer with.

        His record shows that he was very effective this year.

  21. Elais

    Rules for conservativism

    1. Attack anyone that you disagree with by saying they have a radical agenda
    2. Manufacture and distort facts to suit you
    3. Fail to know how to spell Herseth-Sandlin
    4. Hide behind a false name
    5. If you can?t defend your position go off topic.

    Sound familiar Al?


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