From today’s Argus:
Thompson and other anti-Common Core advocates tried to make their voice heard at a public forum hosted by the state’s Blue Ribbon Task Force on Teachers and Students.
Common Core might be contentious, but task force organizers, including some of the state’s top lawmakers, say it has no place in the ongoing school funding talks with teachers, business leaders and community members.
and…
Thompson and others tried to bridge their complaints, but were stymied by the format, she said. They eventually refused to participate in the discussions, which required attendees to meet in small-groups, answer specific questions asked by the moderator and write responses on sticky notes.
But the Common Core protesters should be heard, Thompson said. The standards create extra costs for local districts, for curriculum materials and technology, she said.
So, here we are again. A bunch of people say its all about common core. Because school funding issues magically came about since the implementation of the school standards developed by states?
Ugh. They sound like a broken record. Protesters say common core part of funding problem? Not really. But they don’t have to look that far to get to the root of it.
The argument over school funding has been around since long before Common Core, NCLB, and every other education initiative or education acronym you can recall. Just a few years ago, schools unsuccessfully sued the state to try to determine what an appropriate level of education funding should be. Not to mention previous studies on school funding which pre-date CC.
Even that lawsuit was an attempt to circumvent some of the attitudes which have kept education funding as a contentious issue over the years. And some of those attitudes are almost schizophrenic.
In many communities, people don’t want to pay taxes adequate to support school needs. “Those darn teachers make too much for working 9 months,” and cries of “There are too many school administrators! They can manage 600 employees instead of 200 if we consolidate.”
Yet they’re the first ones to bleat when their local school is in threat of closure, because school closure is a sure-fire town killer, which dries up the chances of anyone wanting to move to that community.
Contributing to the funding inertia is the state teachers union, SDEA, which can’t decide if it wants to merely bite the hand of the legislature that feeds it, or to declare a fatwa against the Republican majority. Neither one has ever worked so well for them, except to harden hearts to anything coming out of their mouths.
And the legislature isn’t so pure in the debate as well. Has anyone ever calculated the cost of the curriculum mandates thrust upon schools over the years? While simultaneously some of the same legislators place their hand over their heart and declare to the masses (who aren’t paying attention) “I am for local control!”
And we have the ‘long suffering’ school boards who have a tendency in this environment to hoard any additional funds in reserve for the next time a school building explodes, burns down, or is declared a asbestos ridden health hazard unfit for inmates, much less children. More funds for teacher pay? Sorry, that’s going into the sock in the coffee can buried in the yard.
The point of all of this is that when it comes to education funding, its not Common Core. We’re all part of the problem. And we all need to be part of the solution.
Its whether or not everyone can accept giving up part of their kingdom for at least a momentary respite in an age old debate.
Do we want to improve funding for education in this state, or do we want to rearrange the chairs on the deck of the Titanic (again), while schools fall apart, teaching positions go unfilled, and we allow the debate to rage for yet another decade?
The Blue Ribbon Study Group has more meetings to come. We shall see.
Back on message, PP. Well, to ignor the cost drivers and only focus on tax increases on the people is not prudent nor a GOP virtue. But heck, what is these days with McConnell, Boehner, Rounds and Daugaard’s “leadership”.
anyone who follows this debate every year, instead of when an opt-out or bond issue comes along, knows that schools have already cranked down as tightly as possible on the ‘cost-drivers’ side of the equation. but go ahead and loft that old “welfare queen” argument about our gold-plated teachers lounges and whatnot. it’s fun.
the democrats are always eager to portray republicans as the party of dirt roads and outhouses, and some of you want to play into that and ask that we have nothing more than dirt roads and outhouses because that’s good enough. well the difference between republicans and democrats isn’t “spending vs no spending” the difference is “responsible spending vs bloated government.” there’s nothing about coming up with a spending-oriented solution to school funding that is anti-republican, and the constant stonewall effort against any increase does a discredit to the party as well as to the schools. what we should want is the right balance and the right spending in the final solution, even if that means a tax bump here or there. god you guys.
Tired of seeing those fat cat administrators, teachers eating lobster and steak in their lounge while my kids eat peanut butter sandwiches!
We could always legalize marijuana and all our school funding issues would go away. Legalizing marijuana would solve everything! It’s the miracle plant and a gift from God!
yes, we have come to realize that every single thing on earth can be turned into an argument for legalizing marijuana. a dumb argument, but an argument.
South Dakota couldn’t HANDLE legalized marijuana. Leave it to we experts in CO. PS …. I sure do see a lot of your state’s license plates at the legal pot stores, this summer. Thanks for the tax money.
Please! Make sure they stay there in Colorado. You can have them.
yes, entice them to CO, that’s mighty neighborly of you.
“Leave it to we experts in CO. ”
Yes, let’s leave pot to the experts in CO who cannot express themselves coherently or grammatically!
dude
Yeah, and the kids could easily get their hands on it and be SUPER attentive during class. The kids would also demand that the vending machines sell all the things that Barack’s wife wants banned from schools.
Heck, let’s legalize prostitution too so that kids without plans to further their education can have jobs after they graduate!
Why didn’t administrators scream a few years ago about the cost to districts when the dropout age was raised form 16 to 18? In fact, most supported the move.
Answer: THEY COULD USE IT TO WHINE ABOUT MORE FUNDING!
” knows that schools have already cranked down as tightly as possible on the ‘cost-drivers’ side of the equation. ”
Really???
Where did SFPS find the hundreds of thousands of extra dollars to hire a failed superintendent from NE?
We need another diversion. How about those darn transgender kids and that fringe jackboot liberal organization forcing this on us!
I participated in the Sioux Falls Blue Ribbon meeting. The process involved a moderator asking the folks seated around the tables a series of questions. The table participants were supposed to discuss answers among themselves and write each answer on a sticky note. At the end of the discussion time we were asked to develop consensus about the top three responses. Those top three were then put on the wall along with the top three responses from each table.
There were in excess of 100 people at the SF meeting. I don’t know how many were at the RC meeting. But imagine for a moment one person sneaking her own answer onto the wall. Is that the type of person we want influencing our system?
Now, as far as the cost for Common Core State Standards, of course there is a cost. But for all the conspiracy crazy followers of Greenfield and May (hereafter referred to as the GreenMaysters), I challenge you to find documentation that the Common Core State Standards we share with other states are MORE expensive than prior non-shared South Dakota State Standards.
Here’s the irony of the situation. No matter how much money the legislature puts into education, teachers will never be happy. Never. At the other extreme, the GreenMaysters will never be happy no matter how “little” money is put into the funding formula. Left hanging in the middle are the children.
I attended the SF meeting of the task force, and it was definitely run by the Delphi technique, but I didn’t know it at the time. Now hopefully attendees will be aware of this, but I don’t hold out much hope.
One of the people at our table had a question concerned the capital outlay levy and funds. If that fund is generating high income at present because of high property values, and it is, why can’t some of that money be applied to teacher salaries? Why limit that fund to capital expenses if there is a greater need somewhere else? And why build a new gym if there is a greater need for those tax dollars somewhere else, like teacher salaries? A gym doesn’t create a better student, but a teacher does. This is a problem that the legislature can fix; it did so several years ago when it allowed the capital outlay fund to be used for computers etc and not just building and maintenance.
A new tax is not the answer. Just more money is not the answer. If more money is the issue, then Washington DC and the reservations schools would be models for every other district to follow, and we all know that is definitely not the case.
Why have costs skyrocketed lately in education? Follow the money. Look at the monthly school expenses and see where the money goes. More mandates?; then address that issue. More money spent on extracurriculars; then address that issue. Nurses, psychologists, social workers, physical therapists – maybe they aren’t as important as the actual teachers who teach our kids.
And it does nothing to further the validity of your argument by calling those who happen to disagree with you names or crazy. It just diminishes YOU.
Springer, how does the state address Federal mandates for nurses, psychologists, social workers, and physical therapists? All of these employees were mandates by the IDEA Act. Let’s be real about what causes costs to rise and what the state can and cannot do to control them. Are you calling for the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act for children with disabilities throughout the nation be repealed?
Springer,
Read Santema’s post again. The Delphi Technique isn’t bad. It is the most common method for giving a forum for disparate opinions to find consensus (partial or comprehensive depending on the mandate and issue). Because it involves humans and human nature, it has inherent pitfalls (point of the paper by Hsu and Sandford) which people have to be aware of and manage (participants and the task force). Manifestation of these pitfalls can’t be eliminated because nobody and no entity is perfect but they can be mitigated managed.
The only reason to have “no hope” is to believe two things:
1) The people involved are of ill-will. Is that what you are saying?
2) The people involved don’t have natural inclination of producing success (proposal which can move forward) and reducing divisiveness.
The Delphi technique isn’t bad if you like a top-down process that looks like it is actually grass roots. That was the same process that was used on the workforce summits. It does make sense in what is considered a Republican state that wants to implement tax and spend policies.
So PP you hit much of this on the head but there are a couple other items…
1. Yes, school boards hoard money.
2. Many taxpayers don’t want to pay more, and that’s understandable.
3. But many of those same taxpayers are the ones in rural areas that hope to keep their schools alive.
4. Those same taxpayers pay ‘Ag’ tax rates with levies and in many cases valuations that are very low — well under market value. These are also the same people that rely heavily on federal farm bills, crop insurance and subsidies on things like roads. Rural SD hates taxes but they love the government help. They would love to keep their school — but just like everything else, many would prefer that someone in the cities pay for them.
5. Many R’s are right about school consolidation. More needs to happen.
6. State mandates — including common core — are costly to school districts and take away genuine teaching time.
7. Teachers will always want more. True. But honestly, the reason we should be doing better now is simply treating them fairly. It’s not about how kids are doing — most indicators show our kids are doing fine. We should pay our teachers better because its the right thing to do. And we should pay them better so they don’t hop over the border simply for more cash.
The only way you will eliminate the cost of state standards is to eliminate state standards. Instead, allow each individual school district create their own standards. That would transfer the cost from the state creating a single set of standards to the cost being multiplied 151 times by each school district and create 151 different standards. Sounds like a great idea. Duh.
When 60%+ of voters in SD do not support common core then it’s time for the governor to get out and talk about it, explain his support, educate the public or else start moving in another direction.
He is not doing either on common core. It’s a loser of an issue right now and he’s not selling anything better.
In 2018 the candidate that opposes common core is who will win the GOP primary for governor.
I tried to ask Gov. Daugaard about it after a debate before the last election. All he could say was that it was developed by the governors, and then I was kinda shooed away by handlers. I supported Daugaard but cannot understand his stance on this issue, and it just might make me rethink who I support next time.
Your reference for 60%? Please don’t present data without giving the source.
http://www.arizonansagainstcommoncore.com/AACC_Myths_vs_Facts.pdf
The above article states, “AccountabilityWorks, in their study of Common Core, estimated that the total additional costs (one-time plus a 7-year time period for implementation) to state taxpayers will amount to $15.8 billion across participating states. It does not include the cost of additional expenses or controversial reforms that are sometimes recommended to help students meet high standards, such as performance-based compensation or reduced class sizes. This estimate includes the following new expenses for the states: $1.2 billion for participation in the new assessments; $5.3 billion for professional development; $2.5 billion for textbooks and instructional materials; and $6.9 billion for technology infrastructure and support.”
Springer, if you believe this silliness, I have to bridge-to-nowhere to sell you. Come ‘on, get real.
Springer,
One of the great things about Common Core Math is the introduction of principles to understand:
1) Proportionality and materiality (I think students start getting this in 3rd grade with rounding but maybe that comes with percentages in 5th grade). The figures you reference are less than .5% (one-half of one percent is the same as 1 divided by 200 for the math challenged) of the total spent on K-12 in the US. The impact of a really cold winter/really hot Fall & Spring and a energy price shock will cost more than this.
2) Discernment of relevance, irrelevance and allocation (this possibly comes in 7th or 8th grade as this standard of understanding is necessary prior to later classes): If textbooks average three years and the phase-in period is 4 years, nothing would get allocated to textbooks since the money would be spent anyway (I don’t know the life of textbooks or the phase-in period. I’m just giving an example). Same with technology if the infrastructure would be used in other areas (i.e. computer labs and/or computers). And, similarly with professional development if there is a current expenditure and Common Core development is a replacement, only the incremental cost would be allocated.
3) Discernment of numbers used to present an inaccurate picture of reality (Math is ultimately about ordering and measuring physical realities): $15Billion is a lot of money. However, in context, .4% is infintessimal in most situations.
Troy from what teachers tell me it isn’t the one new standard set which is the problem. It is the continuos new sets of standards ever six to eight years which drives them up a wall. And to that end $15 B spent just to get new textbooks bought by every school in America every time a new testing protocal is thought up is controversial.
Rep. Hoffman,
1. Call around to a few SD schools. Ask how many still use text books. Probably not a lot. It’s more computers and software these days.
2. If standards aren’t the problem, then why harp on it? Common Core standards have become the euphemistic term to now describe everything that we don’t like about government. Don’t like the EPA? It’s because of those damn Common Core standards! Figure out what you don’t like and why you don’t like it. And please, do you research. Don’t believe the bullshit.
Prairie Dog I actually was a Rep but now I’m just a citizen like the other 99.999% of this great State. As a Representative one should in most cases represent the wishes and likes and dislikes of the majority of the people he represents. District 23 has more people who distrust Common Core’s methods and it is nice that so do I.
Rep. Hoffman, the title is used as a sign of respect for your service to the state — even when you buy into fallacies your service is still appreciated.
Will South Dakota be next? http://news.gnom.es/pr/lawsuit-by-the-thomas-more-law-center-challenges-the-constitutionality-of-common-core-in-north-dakota
http://www.rightsidesd.com/?p=20566
The following (taken from the site above) is testimony given before the legislative committee by Tonchi Weaver regarding Common Core. If the facts below are not true, then please refute them. The entire article is worth a read.
“The whole truth is that South Dakota IS required by the conditions of Race to the Top to join an assessment consortium. Smarter Balanced and PARCC were the only possible options; there were no other choices…..
“Dr. Schopp stated that South Dakota chose Smarter Balanced Consortium willingly and we could have developed our own test and still be in compliance with the waiver. That is not true. South Dakota is bound by the requirements of the Race to the Top (see sources below) in which we agreed to the Common Core standards and assessments, which is how we got the waiver. On page 59 (see below), it is clear that state assessments must be developed through a multi-state consortium – neither Smarter Balanced or PARCC were named because the consortiums had not yet been given proper names. They are both federally funded.
“Dr. Schopps’ claim that the SBAC was chosen because it was “less expensive” has never been documented. Consider what South Dakota will pay for the following:
– annual fees for participation in a consortium ($2,041,885.50 for 2014-2017)
– consultant services for administration, scoring, and reporting ($3,859,927.09 for 2014-2017)
– various forms, materials, data forensic analysis, inventory of student responses documentation, committee meetings and Institutions of Higher Education (HIE) reporting ($4,105,660.95 for 2014-2017)
– the per-pupil cost of the summative assessments is predicted to be $30-$40. That would place the average summative assessment cost for South Dakota students at $7,483,350.00 for 2014-2017 PLUS the cost of the interim and formative assessments. If that per-pupil cost applies to the other contracted assessments, an additional cost of $5,743,719.00 would be needed to pay for assessments, ballooning the total cost for assessments over the three-year agreement to: $13,227,060.00.”
I think before we go any further with Common Core, funding or testing. Along with computers and technology. We need to be investigating for educational fraud, neglect and abuse. I can tell you tests are being falsely adminiatered ICAP test in particular- which is linked to SSI (welfare program) computer protcoring is unethical and in one case a child with autism taught himself algebra with no teacher by himself and got a b by himself in a class. He was able to retake the test over and over.
Funding, well I want to see IDEA data stats and tracking on IDEA programs ( real programs- not banana bread recipe search on Google for a whole semester) every single child- you have stats on everything else- we have no privacy as parents or tax payers. Schools violate HIPPA law. I want to know why schools are passing kids who can not shower or brush their teeth at 18 with a diplomia and cannot function with basic life skills? Perhaps this is the reason why we have such high prison rates and homeless rates…what about mental health? Now an area that needs to be addressed is (K-12) signatures on IEP plans or education plans. Teachers and school administrators who sign off on these knowing that the child is unable to do basic life skills, without the evidenced based programs needs to be held accountable for education fraud, abuse and neglect. Meaning they need to go to prison. Fraud is not protected by any group or insurance company. This means every signature on that contract is legal binding and federal. Parents are not fully disclosed of their rights and I am concerned with unauthorised practice of law under a medical and educational diagnoses on an IEP/504.Merit program must be in place AND fully supported. I do not believe in public school or their structure. I want to put my money in private, home school or another area of need, like economic development, road and 911 services. I also want to make clear that some teachers are being threatened for their jobs if they even communicate information to a caregiver or parents, that is blackmail.This is bullying and immoral. I hear about collaboration from some teachers not wanting to “compete “..well as parent who’s child is a victim of proven discrimination. Who was abused by public school on education fraud, neglect and abuse…who got expert court witness in education at an IEP the collaboration only goes so far before we need to be looking at incarceration for the unethical behavior of public school and their administraion. Where is the enforcement and safety for our families and tax payers? This is a crime.
If you want sources:
Office of inspector general- Kansas City
Office of Civil Rights Kasas City
Attorneys : Ms. Jessica Alvarez Kansas City OCR case 2008
Ms. Rosie Shepard Kansas City OCR referral and 1 appeal won by me Washington DC. 2012 .
We need to relocate funds and have enforcement.
This is happening all over the country. Not just South Dakota.