61 thoughts on “South Dakota House Majority Leader Brian Gosch boots Lee Schoenbeck from caucus?”

    1. Taxes are not a bad thing but the case has to be made as to why they are needed and the general public has to also agree with those sentiments.

      I don’t know if the governor and the supporters have made their cases to the people. They certainly didn’t on HB 1234. Which makes me wonder why the governor did a 180 on this bill from that one.

    2. No legislator should call their leadership “scum”, “clowns”, “cowards” and “liars”.

      Consequences happen.

  2. Gosh overplayed his hand and got called out for it. One cannot go against the will of one’s constituents, fly in the face of demonstrated facts, and obstruct fellow legislators and expect to not get called out for all that.

  3. Jake, I see it as Lee (and 45 others) advocating for student opportunity in SD. When did that become an anti-Republican issue?

  5. Will it ever be possible to work together again? The Dems and Repubs are so far apart these days it drives me crazy! When a good idea is presented help make it possible. It doesn’t matter who came up with it as long as it works. Get together and fix the language on this bill so teachers are better compensated. I don’t care if it is raising the tax, adjusting the funding formula, or whatever, so long as the money goes to the teachers! Teachers need to be placed on a higher pedestal and treated with more respect. They are nurturing our loved ones for most of the day, they are playing multiple roles in our children’s lives, they are constantly told to do more with less on a consistent basis! Please come up with a plan to keep the good ones here and to weed out the clock punchers!

    2. This bill does nothing to keep the good ones and weed out the clock punchers. It just gives everyone a pay raise, including those who are already making more than most South Dakotans.

      1. One of the big reasons there are so many clock punchers is all the good ones are choosing other higher-paid professions or moving to other states, where they’re appreciated for the important role they fill in the future of their state.

        Teachers should make more than many South Dakotans. Who touches more lives and has more impact on people than teachers? I’d think we’d want that to be a positive impact, by folks who fit into your “good” category. And not a negative one as imparted by the “clock punchers” you refer to. You can’t cut your way to success. As any good business owner will tell you, you need to invest.

        1. Why should teachers make more than most South Dakotans? The average teacher is making $20 per hour. How many mainstreet retail people are doing that? Factory worker? Many have a college education too. Teachers know the hours, expectations and pay before they get the degree to teach. It is never about the money but it is always about the money. For a 9 month year? And impact, what about the shortage of ministers and priests in our rural towns? If saving souls is not important what is? Having said that, it is time to give this group a raise but then hold the schools and teachers accountable for outcomes. No more BS on their job is tough to measure. Remedial classes at our colleges have too many students. Our top 10 cities need to have the top 10 performing schools….period. We can’t save our way to success if we want this state to grow. Raise the taxes and get on with it. Life long republican and supporter of the Governor.

          1. Your comments would be laughable if they weren’t so serious and weren’t so wrong. 9-month year? Ever actually talk to some of the teachers who work 16-hour days throughout the school year? Ever visit with a teacher who takes from their own earnings to buy supplies, books and other items for their classroom because the district is broke? Ever talk to a teacher who writes recommendation letters, scholarship application recommendations, etc. for students on their own time? Ever visit with a teacher who has to show up early to school or stay late to deal with multiple discipline issues that we or earlier generations could never have imagined? Ever visit with teachers who travel on nights and weekends to assist with extra-curricular activities for chump change? Or one who volunteers to tutor struggling students, who are there to assist when a student or their family is in crisis, or who takes summer classes to keep up their licensure, or…. shall I keep going? This from a life-long republican and avid supporter of the governor as well. Teachers are grossly undervalued for the service they provide. I didn’t say they should make more than “most,” I said they should make more than “many.” It’s time to do better as a state.

            1. Don’t get a college degree in teaching especially in the state of s dak, If the pay is low. It’s as simple as that. And there are a lot of people that work those kind of hours. It just isn’t teachers. And for a lot less on what they are making right now. Like the owner of the Public Opinion in Watertown. With his comments on working labor in fast food restaurants. They don’t deserve 15.00 an hour. Excuse my french, how the hell would he know. I doubt if he’s ever had to work in that industry. It’s nobody’s business to tell a owner how much to pay they’re employees no matter what they do for a living. People have no idea unless you’ve worked it. All anybody wants to do is make a decent living. But why are the teachers complaining. Try raising a family on minimum wage. Or just because you don’t have a college education you don’t matter. Somebody has to wait on the” educated”,as they sure don’t want those jobs. But they grab a burger like everyone else…then it’s just fine. The State shot down a increase in the minimum wage about overnight. But they get a second vote for raising teachers pay. It’s absolutely appalling!

              1. Right. Like the governor says the minimum wage was shot down because the cost of living in the state is lower . Well there you go…

          2. I could not agree more. Teachers during the months of June, July are taking classes on their own dime to keep up with their certification. We graduate and have a 5 year certificate. We must earn credits to renew, but that money is coming out of our own pockets. If a new curriculum comes along we may have 1 or 2 days of PD, but that isn’t close to covering all the material. Teachers are taking that home and studying and preparing to teach the new curriculum. I would invite anyone to come spend a week in my life from 6am till 8pm every night my wife and I are working and preparing for the next day. Sunday this week we went into school for 4 hours. If you think this is easy work or just 9 months of work? Talk with a teacher and shadow them you will see differently. It is sad that people think teachers have it so easy with a 9 month contract. We need that because the summer is our time to take the classes we need or study the new curriculum for the next school year in between probably working another summer job to help pay for the credits we take. Look deeper into teaching before you cast that stone.

          3. O my god, you had to go into work for four hours on a Sunday??? I never heard of such a thing!!!
            Not! Everybody I know has had to go in on the weekend for something, maybe cleaning, redecorating, moving an office, or doing inventory. The fact that you mention this like it never happens to anybody else shows you have no clue what is required of absolutely all of us.

            Registered nurses have bachelors degrees, work 48 hours or more a week, get called in for extra shifts- on Christmas- and spend their time off on continuing education, because the half life of a medical education is only 2 years.
            And they work 52 weeks a year. The last ten years of my career, I couldn’t get a vacation. I got pay in lieu of time off.
            Teachers not only get holidays off and summer vacations, they get blizzards off. Nobody tells THEM to show up when the interstate is closed.
            The whining and crying from teachers is getting old.

                1. Hate to burst your bubble, but even at that average pay there is a pretty severe nursing shortage.

            2. Avg. RN salary in SD: 53,000

              Avg teacher salary in SD: 39,580

              Not even close to equal pay, and the extra 8K still won’t make it equal.

              Nobody is belittling your work, and you are likely appropriately compensated for extra shifts as you are likely an hourly employee. Salaried teachers in SD are under compensated and as a result we lose the opportunity to hire better teachers because of market forces. If you’re going to be paid more for your work elsewhere, then you go elsewhere – logical. In your situation, if you don’t like the pay for your work, you can find work elsewhere.

              The problem is that our state has become the “hospital” where our “nurses” are underpaid for their services. We lose the better “nurses” (read teachers) to neighboring “hospitals” (read states) that offer better compensation. As a result, the “patients” (students) suffer due to the better staff’s flight to better pay – market forces prevail.

              -and I’m sure your teachers are proud of you for your ability to formulate a reasonable argument.

      2. They should be making more than most South Dakotans in my mind. Their job is a lot more stressful and important than yours or mine!

        1. Why is it stressful, because they have to take all the crap from a few students. Can’t even embarrass them verbally when the student is acting up. Let’s change the laws to allow a teacher to castigate a misbehaving student without fear of a lawsuit. Also, pay more for teacher positions which have a shortage of qualified applicants.

      3. One of the reasons teachers make more than most South Dakotans has to do with the level of education they have in order to be a teacher. I personally have two degrees, neither of which is education. I also have had the education classes that I needed to become qualified as a teacher. When people go to school to get a degree, they do it with the idea that they will have a skill that will get them better compensation.
        When I went into education, I knew what teachers make. I have never complained about my salary. I also understand that every time I get paid a dollar, that dollar has to come out of somebody’s pocket. I also understand that I get paid to do a certain job that has certain responsibilities.
        Most of the teachers I know put in several hours more than they are required to. But just why should they put in more than they are required to? I know people in the private sector who will not put in a minute’s time unless they get time and a half. So if you complain about the “clock watchers” in education, then also be sure to complain about the “clock watchers” in the private sector.
        Personally, I am getting tired of reading some of the comments telling me that I am not doing my job. One of the reasons I went into education is because I was complaining about the job being done. I figured if I was going to complain, maybe I should do what I needed and do something about it. Maybe you should consider it yourself.

        1. You sound like a teacher that I would like to pay more. However, your example of the private sector not working longer without time and a half pay does not fit in this discussion. Those are hourly paid workers, and the Federal Government mandates the overtime pay or the employer gets a hefty fine. Many salaried jobs in the private sector require more than a forty hour week, you work what it takes to get the job done. I’ve been in both situations.

          1. Yes, my wife happens to work on a salary in the private sector. She usually puts in over 45 hours per week, and does not complain. She also gets a salary to support that (probably about $15K more than me). Where she works she sees people who put in their 40 hours and leave. I know very few teachers who work only 40 hours per week.
            Whether this thing goes through or not, I am not leaving the profession until I retire. I don’t have a lot of years left before retiring. I have made this analogy before and I think it is true. SD is getting to be like the Minnesota Twins. We get teachers who are young and get trained and then they will leave for greener pastures.

        2. — So if you complain about the “clock watchers” in education, then also be sure to complain about the “clock watchers” in the private sector.

          Well no. One has nothing to do with taxpayer funds, teachers do.

          — Personally, I am getting tired of reading some of the comments telling me that I am not doing my job.

          or maybe you’re just over-sensitive about what posters are saying. I don’t see any comments directed at you BY name, so enough with the drama queen reaction to comments not directed at you.. There’s no such thing as being offended on behalf of a third party.

          2. I have been seeing a lot of generalizing statements about teachers in general. Not just on this thread but on several others. If you think teaching is so easy, go get your degree and give it a try. It is always easier to criticize when you are not fully informed. As I have pointed out before, I know very few teachers who work only 40 hours per week.

            1. –I have been seeing a lot of generalizing statements about teachers in genera

              As have I.

              Now, which ones were directed at you, dugger?

      4. That’s been a theme at the heart of the problem for as long as I have lived in South Dakota. People in small towns don’t like teachers making more than they do. So how do you go about addressing that?

    3. What makes teachers more important than any other city, county or state worker?
      Apparently, The legislature is getting along just fine. You get to tax everyone else for your own benefit. Congratulations.

      1. Which of those city or county work crews do you want teaching your children for 12 years so that they can be as successful as they can possibly be

    4. Teachers should get an increase in pay when it is deserved. South Dakota hasn’t had the best test results in the country. Students aren’t getting taught…why should they’re pay be increased?

      2. Students are taught, some choose not to learn and excel. Like you, for example, who used the wrong ‘they’re’.

  6. While I understand why Gosch did what he did and I understand that there have to be consequences for what Schoenbeck did by disrespecting the caucus leaders I think this was a foolish move by Gosch. Schoenbeck wants to be seen as the guy who is pushing for this increase in teacher pay for some reason and Gosch is making Schoenbeck look like the poster boy hero legislator for teacher pay increases. The more you punish Lee the more of a celebrity he becomes for his cause.

    So when a legislator seeks attention the last thing someone should do is make them more relevant in the debate.

    I don’t understand what Schoenbeck is doing by calling so many legislators names on the other side and I don’t understand why Gosch gave Schoenbeck the attention he doesn’t deserve.

    (I’m a huge Schoenbeck fan by the way. Wonderful guy. Strange behavior from him though. It’s possible I don’t have all of the facts though as to why this has become so personal. Schoenbeck is much smarter than Stace. Russell is about as smart as they come and I like that he marches to his own drum.)

    2. I have known Lee a lot of years and have never known him to be discourteous in the way he has here. It’s simply out of character. He did have a bad cold. Maybe something more is going on with his health, maybe he needs a check up.

  7. Can I just say that this is a sad day when politics becomes so personal?

    Daugaard put a lot of Republicans in an uncomfortable spot.

    The governor’s office is by far the most powerful position in SD politics.

    1. It shouldn’t be the most powerful. The tactics used by the pro HB 1182 people are nothing to be proud of. And the legislators that bowed down to these tactics are no better. Voters will remember.

      1. Yes. Voters will remember. And I suspect they will be watching to see if the money goes where they say it will. I believe most people in SD support this bill and the reason so many legislators voted in favor of it is because they are trying to do what their constituents want and not what some very vocal minority people want.

  8. So can Rep. Gosch just do this by the powers he has as majority leader or does the caucus need to concur?

  9. Lee is doing the right thing. Gosch, in trying to make a point (albeit a stupid one), is certainly free to do what he thinks he needs to do. But I think he’s making a very big mistake. Lee is one of the most effective, well-spoken, talented legislators in Pierre. And Gosch boots him from the caucus? Stupidity run amok.

    1. I disagree. Lee was in fact calling other legislators names, and also his leader very vile names. His actions were unbecoming those of a legislator and this behavior should not be tolerated. Gosch absolutely should have booted him. Maybe the pressure is causing Lee to have a mental breakdown.

  11. My guess is Mr. Schoenbeck wants to have Mr. Gosch’s job. Otherwise he would have voted no on the tax to take away the Governor’s job. That’s probably it.

  12. My first and last comment.
    i have no interest in exchanging ideas/opinions with those i dont know.
    Norbe

  14. Wow so Thune isn;t the only liberal who bails out banks and farm subsidies now he will be joined by the state legislature.Hey get ready for photo ops.

  15. I can’t get this to post to the above post stating that teachers should get paid more than other South Dakotans because their job is more stressful.

    What an arrogant and condescending statement! A teaching job can be stressful, but if that is all it is, maybe the teacher is in the wrong profession. There are plenty of other high stress jobs as well which are underpaid in this state – social workers, school counselors, even some state lawyers whose decisions are critical to the people of SD they are charged with helping, farmers. Stress can be caused by high expectations of a boss, dangerous working conditions, trying to comply with mandated rules and regs, coworkers, etc. No one can judge the stress level of another’s job.

    1. My point is that teachers should be seen as one of the most important pieces to our community. They play a very important role in developing our future through teaching young minds to be great leaders, doctors, teachers, social workers, counselors, etc.

  17. It appears that Mr. Shoenbeck is having some kind of Kanye West meltdown. His constituents voted for him to do a job, and he should finish it like a man. We all get frustrated now & then, but this episode is embarrassing.

    He also appears to be positioning himself for some other job in order to “fix the system”.

  18. Why doesnt the state give people that lost they’re jobs after 20 years they’re full unemployment instead of lying to them. The State is doing what ever possible to kick them off early before that 26 weeks is up. They make them jump through hoops
    They want them to take any job available even if the pay is half of what they made before. If they don’t take what “Job Service” gives them. They kick them off after ten weeks. They make every week harder after that. They have earned that 26 weeks. THE EMPLOYER THEY WORKED FOR PAID IN FOR THEM , NOT THE STATE. GIVE THEM THE 26 WEEKS TO FIND A JOB EQUIVALENT TO WHAT THEY MADE. THEY WORKED FOR THAT. If they state kicks them off after 26 weeks. Does the employer get the money back when that employee doesn’t get they’re 26 weeks. No the state gets it in a nice little fund to pay all the government employees working in the unemployment offices. And they want to give the teachers a raise….it’s “garbage”

  20. Yes, and they dispute upping the minimum wage to over eight dollars. People can’t even make it on that , and the poor teachers want a eight thousand dollar raise. Disgusting!! You expect people to work low paying jobs some have college educations some dont. But what gives anybody the right to tell an employer what to pay anybody. Sometimes people don’t have the opportunity to further ones education. But should be able to make a living in whatever job they do.

  22. Ask any business owner what they call a employee who works only 9 months a year, get two vacations in that 9 months and numerous other days off what they consider that employee. Meet a part timer on low hourly wage.
    Ask any home owner if they would hire a mechanic, electrician plumber and many other trades who does not spend off hours to stay current in their trade.
    Ask any union member if they think nonunion members have a right to work.
    Give me a break

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