Rapid City resident, businessman, & former City Councilman Bob Fischer is at the forefront of a national movement to find an alternative to Donald Trump for conservatives to vote for, should Trump end up as the Republican nominee.
From Politico:
Three influential leaders of the conservative movement have summoned other top conservatives for a closed-door meeting Thursday in Washington, D.C., to talk about how to stop Donald Trump and, should he become the Republican nominee, how to run a third-party “true conservative” challenger in the fall.
The organizers of the meeting include Bill Wichterman, who was President George W. Bush’s liaison to the conservative movement; Bob Fischer, a South Dakota businessman and longtime conservative convener; and Erick Erickson, the outspoken Trump opponent and conservative activist who founded RedState.com.
and…
The meeting is scheduled for Thursday, two days after winner-take-all Florida and Ohio vote in what many Republican operatives believe will determine whether Trump is on an unstoppable march to the nomination or is likely to stall out short of the 1,237 delegates he needs.
and…
Fischer, in 2012, helped bring together a group of more than 200 conservatives from across the country to unite around Rick Santorum’s candidacy. An event in Houston he put together raised $1.8 million in a day.
So, do you applaud what Bob is doing, or not?
recent events surrounding the republican primary, and the campaign of donald j. trump, have caused me to take a hard look at The Conservative Movement. i think it’s hard to argue that the Movement even matters any more, that their collective effort will result in anything at all, that long-winded mindcrushing debates over this or that conservative point are more valuable than ten seconds of donald trump. i don’t think the case can be made. good luck mr fischer, better luck than you had with santorum. ted cruz is arguably the best thing to happen to conservatism since the decline of gingrich, and if he’s being ignored like he is today, i can’t picture anyone or anything doing better. any third party effort won’t come from the democrat side, so any nutty thing like this is a hail mary for hillary rodham clinton. can’t be plainer than that.
Bingo. President Hillary.
Fischer is doing what his type are good at – Losing.
He supported Santorum. Need I say more about not being able to find a decent conservative who can win.
Cruz is a decent Conservative who could win if not for RINO Kasich seeking a brokered convention. Senator Thune should be the Conservative that he claims to be and support Cruz, though his handler, McConnell, doesn’t agree.
What is worse: the person who lies to his colleagues and, in effect, to the American people (McConnell), or the person who labels him for what he is, a liar (Cruz)?
If the Conservatives of this party try to shove anotger candidate down are throats then I believe there will be a total revolt by the people thease idiots have not done nothing for the people except sit behind the desk and dream of some tropical paradise they can retire to.They are afraid of Trump because of the exposure it would reveal to bad you idiots
Used to know Bob. My husband sold him carpet. We started two successful businesses in Tennessee, one with Swedish partners. When we sold to an investment company and then all the Americans working in any significant role were replaced by foreign white collar workers, we appealed to the Republican Senator Llamar Alexander, pointing out we were three times the limit for foreign white collar workers taking our jobs. I believe our representatives are bought off by foreign governments, governments with high unemployment. We were given no support by our own government. We had to find our own way, compete and take back the customers we sold to 3i. It’s a longer story than that, but we know Bob from years ago. He has no idea of the plight of the average person trying to make it. He has had money and influence for forever. He does not know how much the establishment, through their corruption, has made it difficult to obtain that now. The American Dream is dying. Trump represents the people. It would be the first in a long time. As long as Bob has had his chance, he does not care that we have ours. Just like Hollywood success stories on the other end. They all always side with the established powers.
The Conservative party can’t have their way they try to thwart what the people are voting for. I can honestly say if the derail this election process I’m out I’ll jump ship on the republicans and join whatever party Trump forms….we need a revolution in this country and it has taken a brash out spoken shrewd businessman to expose all the ugly Truth and it’s only going to get uglier. If the “Establishment” thinks they can mount a where are you against Trump and come out intact they are sadly mistaken. I hope if the push Trump out he exposes ALL of their dirty little secrets.
Won’t be buying any more furniture from his business anymore.
What a disgrace !
You have sold your soul Bob!
What is it that the ruling class have against Senator Cruz other than he had the audacity to call them on the carpet for not holding the line on conservative issues or that he might have stepped out of the line to run for president that formed behind JB. I did not hear them getting all bent out of shape over the truly slanderous statements that the now minority leader in the senate has said about the hard working people in America who do not believe in spend, spend, spend and other issues
Why don’t these people raise money like this to help people start businesses? These people do nothing unless there is something significant in it for them. So, what is in it for these guys and the party to stop Trump? That is the question. Trump looking out for the people and for them, their power, their money puts a real cramp in things for them!
It’s not about the values. That is a way to get conservative votes. It’s the same as when the democrats promise free school and better this and that for blacks and divide by victimizing people. It’s about the money! Look at the jobs, the middle class jobs, that have left the US. The rich get richer, the poor can be bought off for peanuts, and the middle class, well, we are a dilemma. Read between the lines. We do not really chose our candidates. We should throw out the party system. We do not really elect our candidates. We do not really have a voice. Why are we paying taxes?
Is this a good idea? NO!!!! A third party candidate on the GOP/conservative side will simply hand the election to Hillary. Anyone can see that; just look at history. I am a conservative. I like Cruz. I also like Trump. I do NOT like the idea that just because the establishment/elite/whatever part of the party does not agree with the will of the majority of the voters that they can stick in another candidate that they choose. Hey, my first pick last time around was not Romney, but the establishment elite wanted an establishment candidate, and you see where that got us – Obama. The time before that was the same thing with McCain. However, I did vote for the GOP nominee because to not vote for that person was to vote for the other guy, in both cases Obama.
This is the GOP’s race to lose, and it looks like they are he—- bent on doing just that, just to spite Trump and all the ordinary folks who are voting for him and to protect their feifdoms. I thought the GOP wanted to expand the tent, as they love to say, and bring in enough new voters to win an election. Trump is doing just that, but the power structure is scared of his winning and topping their little empires, so they have decided that they know best and all the rest of us serfs had better just acknowledge that. BUT, this time, we say NO!
The first question out of the gate at the first debate was directed at Trump as to whether he would support the candidate who emerged as the winner on the GOP side, and he agreed to it, as did the others on the stage. But that question was aimed specifically at Trump. Now it seems that the wrong people were asked that question!
The Republican party at the national level is in a melt down. After Romney’s defeat, party leaders called for the GOP to reinvent itself. Be more inclusive of minorities. How has that worked out? America is a very different country now compared to the 70s and 80s and early 90s. And the 2000s. The different America doesn’t like your party anymore. And one day, South Dakota won’t like it either. The 2016 legislative session got that ball rolling.
Of course this is a bad idea.
I do not believe this effort is a “bad idea”. The polls now show Clinton leading Trump by a wide margin and that’s before the media takes him apart. The only way to save down ballot Republicans is to run a third-party candidate that can draw anti-Trump Republicans and Independents to the polls.
And if that third-party candidate can take a couple states and send the election to the House of Representatives, all the better.
USA Today poll (2/11-2/15) has Trump beating Clinton by 2 pts. head-to-head.
What the hell are you talking about jimma?
5, 8, 5, 9, 13. These are the margins from the last five polls (in order). All of them show Clinton leading Trump.
Your lonely poll from February has been preceded and followed by a lot of losing polls for Trump. But I think you already knew that.
He will be crushed in November. I know at least a half dozen Republicans personally who would never vote for him. These same people have never voted for a Democrat.
–The polls now show Clinton leading Trump by a wide margin
Trump leading by 2 in a respected USA Today poll refutes your claim.
Sorry.
Next time, be accurate in your claims.
–The polls now show Clinton leading Trump by a wide margin and that’s before the media takes him apart.
–5, 8, 5, 9, 13
I guess 5-13 pts. 8 months out could be a “wide margin” if one wanted to exaggerate the difference, but a reasonable person would not.
That’s too old a poll to be relevant now. What do the latest polls say? I’m not be a smart aleck, I’m really curious.
Last head to head poll with Trump over Clinton (+1) was Florida poll, March 8 results.
RCP General Election Polls
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/pres_general/
Mitch McConnell was advising Senators up for election that they can, if necessary, run against Trump to save their hides. Now, Mitch may be evil but he is not stupid. Candidates are terrified of the Trump effect and they should be.
Without question, Trump is a long shot. And we did not need to take that risk.
(Sorry Mitch. I don’t really think you’re evil but I am trying to reach a certain audience here.)
Mitch isn’t evil, maybe but he lives in the establishment fantasy world who is our for the few rather than the vast majority. It’s staring them in the face and they still ignore. Maybe not all of the R party is so concerned about all the frill stuff but the real stuff now.
Sorry Mitch! It wasn’t enough that he lost one election for the Republicans? He wants to make it two!
The nominee will either be Trump or Cruz. Any other thought is merely delusion.
as an admirer and respecter of all involved, allow me to revise and extend. remove the word ‘nutty’ above – written in haste. i would say ‘possibly somewhat ill advised’ instead. thanks. ‘nutty’ isn’t a word to use for the serious matters at hand, and the serious deliberation discussed, however motivated.
That’s nice of you, Mary.
Primaries can be rough and winnowing as Rubio et.al. just found out. We will see what Trump is made of.
Whether the nominee is DT, TC, or JK and it goes through the convention, we will have plenty of time to have a national campaign against the Dem. nominee.
We either believe in democracy or we don’t.
As of now, we have three candidates who have gotten 37%, 27% & 14% of the 40% of the votes to be cast. They all have a lot to prove which has the mettle to both win the general and govern. They all have strengths and weaknesses.
I think his backing out of the upcoming debate shows what he is made of; he is afraid to actually try to argue his positions without the help of buffers (Rubio for one). I understand Trump supporters will say this is being smart, but I call it being a politician-oh, wait! He is supposed to be an outsider, not a politician!
PS. Trump has barely moved his needle since the beginning when there were 17 candidates and he has dominated free media. Cruz has moved up the most as people dropped. Kasich has the momentum.
You really are delusional, Troy.
What is delusional? I am sincerely asking.
Yours was declaratory not interrogatory, Mr. Jones. Pick a lane, little dood.
Intelligent and useful you are to any discussion.
Ditto.
And of course, he gets really nasty when questioned.
So much for Christian comity.
You notice that too!
He truly HATES being questioned about his “declarations”.
Mitch never provided a tax return until the last minute. Obama did not even produce a birth certificate, something I had to do to get a driver’s license! Why pick on Trump. Double standard. Help him help you!
Fair enough that you tipped your hand for Kasich. He’s a mathematical improbability ! Hence, your choice to represent in votes vs delegates. I’ll give you a delusional, as explained.
Kasich has momentum? He won his own state. How did he do in any of the other states? Last in most. Somehow thinking that a 6% of votes in most states is momentum is lost on me. Trump and Cruz should get together on a ticket, and it would win! They have most of the votes and most of the delegates. And if people don’t like one, they probably like the other, and thus a winning ticket! And as an added benefit, the establishment would hate it!
I love that thought with the exception that Trump has called Cruz ‘a nasty guy’. I wish he would’ve chosen his words and attitude more carefully earlier on but in politics (think of Bill and Barrack) anything goes. They would neutralize each other. Cruz is too conservative to win on his own in my opinion although I like him the most as he is the most constitutional. Trump while a wild card (but so was Obama with NO experience), still knows how to deal with a big budget and obviously has international relationships. We need a win. Period. We already saw what the establishment’s backing does to a candidate. Finally, the people have spoken. If we lose, it will be due to the establishment because they didn’t pay attention to the people. More DC entitlement thinking we’re blind.
Yeah! We need to have some real riots if it becomes so blatantly evident that our government is no longer by the people or for the people, which it is not.
I don’t know that Kasich has momentum; he cannot win the number of votes needed to secure the nomination so he is angling for a brokered convention at the behest of the establishment. I call that a disservice to the American people, and I wish he would just drop out since he cannot legitimately win the nomination-quit playing games!
Yes! They know Hilary can be bought off. She can be counted on to bend to the money. Trump is a wild card, and they can’t have that. We should be extremely upset about how corrupt our government has become. I was blind to it until now. Kasich is in there at establishment bidding. Nothing but bought and paid for.
Trump was only hope to win. Candidates like Cruz are further to the right than most Republicans today. People like Bob are exclusive, not inclusive. Bob is like the rest of the GIO establishment, washed up and out of touch. They stopped Reagan twice, and now act like he is their poster child. Trump can win if they will let him. Cruz will never win. Bob and the gang need to stay away from the race track, cause they can not pick a winner.
at the end of the day, the tug of war has one rope, and two ends to pull on. the trick is always to make the other team lose their best pulling force.
This just proves the Establisment political powers want to control the masses.
Cleveland should be a very wild ride.
A third-party candidate is doomed from the git-go. As for Trump, if he becomes the GOP nominee, he won’t just lose the general, but drag all the down-ticket to defeat, as well. Bottom line: Work to elect Cruz as the nominee, but let this all shake out as it must.
trump has no plan to run without the republican party solidly behind him. given what insiders have revealed about both parties’ leaders this month, it’ll be interesting to see if a fractured party loss is less important than not taking a chance on an outsider/unknown quantity who is more appealing to hillary’s voting bloc than she is. if there’s a backroom deal to be made it has to be one that won’t make trump bolt – probably with kasich or god forbid lindsay graham as vp.
Mary, the current state of the GOP and all the infighting and attacking is much better than any episode of The Walking Dead. Which the GOP should change its name to in the next year or two.
keep laughing lucy
I’m not laughing. And I am not Lucy, bitter Mary G.
dork lol
Witch. lol. Can’t figure out what Kevin sees in you. Oh, wait …
Lindsey Gramnesty as VP! I felt-what’s the opposite of a thrill up my leg?-a shudder down my spine! Perish the thought!
Dido!
Lindsey Graham! He is representative of everything the public is voting against! They have no wisdom.
For the good of the Republican Party Trump should consider leaving and contesting Gary Johnson for the Libertarian Party nomination.
Tell Mr. Fischer to check and see if Ross Perot is interested. After all, he ran as an independent in 1912 got 18% of the vote and guess who we got . . . a Clinton. If one wants another Clinton run an independent again. Is Bob crazy?
eh . . . 1992
I think some in the establishment are so afraid of losing their gravy train that they would vote for Hillary before ever voting for Trump or Cruz. And this is the problem in both parties this year. Except that Hillary has stacked the delegates in her favor ahead of time so really never had to worry about Sanders upsetting her gravy train.
Stick to analysis of GOP foibles cuz yer lousy at reading the Democrats.
Yes! They know Hilary can be bought off. She can be counted on to bend to the money. Trump is a wild card, and they can’t have that. We should be extremely upset about how corrupt our government has become. I was blind to it until now.
Kelly,
Who are you talking to and what are you talking about?
My comment was directed at you.
Want a Democrat? This is how to do it.
Kelly,
1). How do you come to the conclusion that I tipped my hand? Those are facts with regards to votes they have gotten from those who have voted.
2). It is my opinion that these three have strengths and weaknesses. Do you think any of them are flawless or deeply and fundamentally flawed?
3). Mathematically, if Trump stumbles, Cruz can win (hard but doable) or it goes to the convention.
4). Whether one wins via the primary or at the convention, I think there is time for the nominee to conduct a national campaign.
So, rather than expressing I am delusional, this is a place where you can express your specific thoughts.
Troy
1. I took your “observation” of momentum for Kasich as cheerleading. Choosing to measure votes vs delegates was curious. Kasich is mathematically eliminated via delegates.
2. All have flaws. Cruz fewest, ideologically speaking. Kasich, to name a few, his Medicaid embrace, NAFTA and his last minute full embrace of immigration. Trump is beyond comment. He’s riding a wave of rage.
3. I’m a Cruz guy. Slim, and I look forward to the head to head with Trump. The backroom will be busy and may make the convention as symbolic as most often.
4. I’m all in favor of the national efforts, less Kasich, for the fleshing out of it all.
My delusional reference was strictly made as it relates to my perception of your Kasich embrace via claimed momentum. The Establishment is cooked and that resentment will find it way to assignment on Hillary and the Democrat machine in the general. A third term is super difficult and even then during the best of times.
I’ve most often agreed with you Troy and enjoy your comments.
it’s too convenient to write trump supporters off as “rage filled” and thus delusional. there has been a sort of “last straw” that has happened between the beltway crony network and the public whose votes they court (but evidently don’t reeeeeeeally need.) the commonality between trump supporters is a final acceptance of the evidence that the elections are highly rigged, that debates and arguments are mere tactical warfare emptied of any hope that things will change or improve, that no matter which face wins, the same people hold and wield power cycle after cycle. trump supporters came out by the tens of thousands to the first tea party rallies in 2009, then gave up as the groups became part of the conservative movement brand. the establishment and their partners in the national media are seen as the untouchable ruling force, and that the election choices that offer are mere distractions to siphon off peoples political energy. trump’s people are totally out of trust – for their parties, for the media messages, for grassroots/astroturf acorn-codepink-BLM riots, all of it. they are voting trump because their gut tells them he’s the only thing left to trust. i read an essay from stan adelstein comparing trump to hitler. really? why aren’t the riotous protesters the brown shirts? people are finally learning how to trust their guts again. the only thing left to see is if enough of them can be convinced to quietly give up and go home. the gop establishment has sent a clear message that the risk of a split party loss is preferable to the unknown country of a trump win.
again, those leaping to trump are done with the conservative movement too. ask them.
Yes! More important things to tackle at the moment. $$ and security to name my top two. Want someone who can actually get something done w/o lobbyists or anyone else in their pockets. No more puppets!
Yes! The conservative movement leaves out too many people. It’s out dated and washed up, corrupt and bought off. None of these guys cares about the voters. They want cheap labor, open borders, and free trade. That is why they hate Trump. The stock market does well, using foreign labor or illegal labor, but the rest of the US suffers. Even our retirement savings is forced into what…the market. I now see how corrupt it all is, and I can never go back to supporting these people. Trump is not a conservative or a liberal. He is representative of the majority that pays the bills but has no voice. They do not realize how angry people really are. Stop Trump? Stop the party system! George Washington was against it. The movement today should be to revolt against the whole party system!
The best part of this primary season has to be where people actually believe Trump is conservative. He’s many things but conservative is not one. Not by the true definition. However we’re electing one part of government here, not a king. I doubt much really will change under his watch if he wins the general election (and no, he won’t win; he can’t draw in enough “independent” voters scared of his rhetoric). However we are making a mistake of trying to discount the voice of the people. If they want Trump let them have him. Personally I am thankful for Trump. He is taking with him that emotionally driven right wing authoritarian element that only huddled under the eaves of the conservative movement because the GOP offered no other place for them to go. I say good riddance. They’ll have a place where the Rambo rule, lynch mob mentality is fully accepted and embraced. It will be good for them as there will be no excuse any longer to pretend that the Constitution, limited government or free market capitalism, as well as that truly American institution of compromise, are subjects they need to pretend they understand or care about. It is alittle funny that devout followers of the Donald now call conservatives establishment as where before he sailed upon the scene on pompadour like wings they cozzy’d up to the likes of Sen. Cruz and assailed such Republicans as McCain and McConnell. This will be an opportunity for the Republican Party to clean up a downward spiral and perhaps it will crawl out from having to feel like it needs to aspire to the past, and with less baggage now since bell-boy Donny is filling his limo with the pseudo-conservative cult-like element that never really understood the term anyway. The Republican Party will now be able to more clearly define the message of being the party of the Individual and the Individual’s ability to go as far as possible unrestricted in a world driven by private enterprise. If he’s elected president he’ll serve one term but he won’t be elected president. His time for honoring himself is closing to an end quickly. More important to remember is he isn’t a Republican running for the presidency but rather he’s running as a Republican. Big difference.However I say elect him. He’s amusing. At least he isn’t melba toast like Romney. He actually should be given a sainthood. The myth of St Patrick claims he banished snakes from Ireland. Trump is banishing that clumsy part of the party that somehow assumes it’s better to mandate their anger than continue sowing the seeds of free market prosperity.
Tony – although long, I read most of the above. I agree very much with what I read. When I firs heard he was running, I assumed it was as a Democrat! At this point, I was OK with that. If he’s running as a Republican, all the better as he’ll try to appoint R’s to leadership at least. The rest, I rely on his business knowledge as the US is a mere HUGE business which is why I wanted Ross Perot and they both LOVE the country, more than some of the establishment and lobbyist old cronies… I like your perspective! Time will tell, of course.
Springer:
As you point out, Kasich was once polling nationally under 3% and stayed there for months, as low as 9% a couple weeks ago and is now polling 20%, that is by definition momentum. Kasich is now 5% behind Cruz and 10% behind Trump.
Kelly,
If you were curious, you could have asked why I chose to reference votes instead of making a rash and incorrect judgment. I chose votes to for one very simple reason: Trump needs to get over 50% of the remaining delegates. When there was 17 candidates Trump polled at 35% and he is getting 35% of the vote when primaries are actually held even as the field winnows. Unless Rubio’s supporters move to Trump and Cruz or Kasich stumble, the nomination will be decided at the convention and Trump’s inability to broaden his base will be a factor with a lot of delegates whose candidate isn’t in the race anymore.
Regarding flaws, people select their candidate on more than ideology, especially in primaries where the difference is small on issues compared to Democrats. In many ways, Trump is the best proof of this because he polls at roughly a third of Republicans who self-identify as very conservative, conservative, semi-conservative or moderate. Leadership style seems to be his magnet vs. ideology.
Finally, my final point is primaries are good as they are good preliminary test of mettle to handle adversity and build coalitions which are necessary for winning the general election. Trump is about to face a test like he never has so far. If he passes, he will be the nominee. If not, it will go to the one who shows he has the mettle. Cruz is the best positioned today to step into the breach if Trump fails but that too is not assured as Cruz now steps farther outside his base, he is facing his own test.
For me, I don’t vote until June and I’m going to vote for the one I think best passes the tests before them between now and June (with heavy weighting to beating Hillary as I find all three sufficiently supportive of my positions generally). I haven’t made up my mind because I don’t have to.
Troy
You remain delusional with your obsession over Kasich as detailed in your reply to Springer. His recent rise that you marvel at is a pure Establishment squeeze. That tantrum may go on a bit longer but only as an expression of poopy pants.
I was wrong. I never thought that a guy who admits to being “greedy, greedy, greedy” and acknowledges affairs with other men’s wives and encourages violence and simply knows next to nothing about any issue…. could possibly get the nomination. He certainly can.
But, the polls indicate that he will get hammered in the general election. The last two polls show a nine and thirteen point lead for Hillary Clinton. We can try to argue that these polls are wrong but I don’t believe that there is any evidence of that. I expect that all the media attention of Trump will continue but will take a decidedly negative turn, enhancing her chances of a rout. The betting odds now have him at about a 20% chance of winning the Presidency. That is optimistic, in my opinion.
No, I did not think it possible for someone who doesn’t seem to know how to finish a complete sentence or stick to a topic for more than thirty seconds could possibly win the nomination. With the help of Breitbart, Drudge, Rush and Sean, he can get the Republican nod. I am guessing that most of these “conservative” media are personal friends of his which might explain some of this.
Now, it is up to the political opposition to do what we cannot. Send him back to Trump University. He can learn how to be the loser that we should have taught him to be. Stirring up violence and flirting with racists should preclude anyone from serious contention. He is a disgrace and will go down in history as such.
The Presidency and Supreme Court were in our grasp in addition to the House, Senate and governorships. We could have had it all. Then, Donald Trump came along. A newly registered Republican who can win… until it matters.
It seem everyone believes Trump gets killed in the general election. It is unfortunate, but if the two main candidates are Trump and Clinton, it will be another case of holding our noses and voting for the least of two bad choices. I do not believe he gets crushed. Trump is probably the only person on the Republican ticket that can carry NY and NJ. That is about 10% of the votes needed to win the election. The Republicans have been ceding NY and California to the Democrats since Reagan. I also believe Ohio, Pennsylvania and Michigan will be in play. Florida will probably go with Trump over Clinton. He owns a lot of property there and I think people like what he has done with resorts. Trump has a message that resonates with the people who are having troubles in those states. Hillary lost Michigan to Sanders. She is not well liked. Neither is Trump, but I believe he is respected. Besides, I am not sure Hillary can run from a jail cell.
Trump is trending down and is way behind Clinton. He is not going to win many Hispanics and will bank even fewer Black votes. (It doesn’t matter how delusional he is about that.) I believe that he will pick up some white Democrats but nothing near what is needed to win in the Fall.
And what about the gift he’s gotten? The NY Times recently had an article that showed Trump with almost 2 billion dollars in free media so far. Roughly as much as all other candidates combined and largely positive. Now, guess what happens when it turns overwhelmingly negative as it surely will?
jimmy,
There is a lot of time between now and the election. Trump has not won the nomination yet. I still have hopes for Ted Cruz. If the establishment blocks Trump or Cruz, I do not believe it will matter who runs on the Republican side. Just supposin’ Trump wins the nomination, if the Republicans come around like they should, I believe he as a better than 50-50 chance. He has not trained his attacks on Clinton yet. Also, I do not believe he will hold back when debating her.
As for the “gift” he’s gotten. Is it a gift or is he the master of getting publicity? He does a great job of stealing the media after such things as debates and other “news”. I don’t know whether you just don’t like Trump or are just pessimistic about him. Personally, I don’t trust him, but recognize he is a lot better than the alternative. A third party will just kill everyone’s chances except Hillary’s. And she might be in jail by then!
You say “He won’t hold back while debating her”. Seriously? He doesn’t know anything about the issues. He has nothing in his arsenal. The only thing he can throw are insults. We know he can insult women alright.
About the only way Trump would win is if Hillary was “in jail” by November. She will run circles around him in the debates. Maybe a segment of Republican primary voters don’t care whether a candidate has knowledge of the issues (or not) but Trump will soon find out that many others do.
Republicans have never nominated someone so lacking in ability, knowledge and temperament. If you disagree, give me a name. Maybe I am overlooking someone. The average legislative candidate has a better grasp of the issues.
First, I believe he has a better understanding of the issues than what you give him credit for. Second, every time Trump says something or does something that would knock most people out of the race, his numbers go up. Third, Americans don’t give a darn about his understanding of the issues. They see and hear someone who is actually saying the right things. I question whether he will do what he says, but he at least says it. Fourth, when the “success” of Clinton as SOS is examined, people will see her as lacking in understanding of policy. This Clinton’s name is not “Bill”.
Trump is thought to be a buffoon. I believe his opponents think that at their own peril. BTW, I have a theory that Trump really does not want to be President. Look at all of the things he has done that would kill most candidacies. Instead his numbers go up. Maybe he is trying to throw the election and cannot understand why he is even still in the race! Yes, the last part is a joke, but you know, it does make sense.
Same thought many times but no one wants to say it! He actually said he got in it for ‘fun’, I believe. He needs a strong VP, for sure but I’m certain, if elected, he’ll do the best for the country as he can.
You are right on everything here. But, Our government is paid by Mexico to let people cross. European countries were paid to take refugees. All at the expense of their own citizens. They can’t let Trump get in and mess up such a profitable form of human trafficking. See the real issues! Not what they want you to see.
And Trump won’t be bought off. You’re right that he knows more than the general public and they don’t want him messing up their plans! Let alone, exposing them…
Yes. Donald Trump admits quite freely that he is “greedy”. Let me think about that for a minute. I just had to look it up.
What is the definition of greedy? My dictionary says it is “having a selfish desire for wealth or power”.
OK. Now what’s the definition of “selfish”? That would be “having a lack of consideration for others”. Yes, there you have it!
But… some of you want to elect this same “selfish” guy to go to Washington and stand up for you. For you? That’s funny. His history indicates that he will do the complete opposite. He will be standing up for someone…. but that someone isn’t you.
You see, to be “greedy” means you are willing to screw the people around you. To rip off the folks that live and work sixty-five floors beneath you.
No, Trump is not what you think he is. He has “a lack of consideration” for you. Believe him when he tells you so.
And considering the last eight years, how would that be different other than the fact that from a business standpoint (which affects unemployment, US revenue, less welfare to name a few)? Obama had not a clue and still doesn’t in any global or national set of issues or how to fix anything.
What about the Republican Party? Think they are not selfish, greedy, and willing to rip us all off? What do you think has been going on? Why did they not stop Obamacare? They were given some of the money.
Frankly, if one signs a petition to become, or create, a third party candidate, then they are no longer a Republican.
One can VOTE for a third party candidate in the voting booth, but to openly run, or campaign for a third party candidate makes one an independent.
The primaries and convention will determine who the Republican candidate is.
As an alternative candidate to Hillary Clinton, I’ll support whichever candidate wins under the rules of the GOP. I will NOT support “gaming” the rules to introduce a candidate that has not participated in the primaries and is not eligible under the rules.
Personally, my preferred choice is Ted Cruz, but we’ll have to wait to see how this all plays out.
And the ‘rules’ are made up at the convention at the time of convention. No previous ‘rules’ apply. All up to those in charge at convention time. That’s ‘gaming’ in my opinion. My point is about your comment of ‘… wins under the rules of the GOP’ kind of cancels out your point of ‘…has not participated in the primaries…’ Hoping you mean the latter.
jimmy james, your comments are fun to read. but your initial premise, i.e. that the gop had a lock on everything it ever wanted until trump messed it up by running, that doesn’t hold a lot of water. there is no sure thing, ever. george h.w. bush knows it, bob dole and jack kemp know it, mitt romney and john mccain know it, and george w. bush barely won against the two dullest dumbest men to run for the white house since warren g. harding. rick lazio got the first and finest education on what a sure thing beating hillary can be. so, i must disagree. the polling on trump in any circumstance is a snapshot in time that’s a few days or weeks old. he keeps defying the conventional wisdom, the natural order of things, and the safe bet is that for the near term, he’ll keep defying the logic. his opposition, including democrat protest groups, the establishment of both parties, the conservative movement dependent on the establishment, all will keep ratcheting up the “he’s hitler” stories, and trying to refight the beer hall putsch at each rally. in the cartoon feature film “the incredibles,” the villain is a scientist who uses various devices to get superpowers that the superheroes have, and plans to sell the devices to everyone on earth, saying “when everyone is super, then no one will be.” well then if everyone is hitler, then nobody is.
You are right about that, enquirer. But the truth is that Cruz was near Hillary in the polls and Rubio beat her most of the time. The same for Kasich now. Taking this kind of chance on someone with negatives in the sixty-three percent range, like Trump has, is not wise. Those numbers are terrible.
And he isn’t even a conservative.
i’m going to look into the poll methodology, track record, margin of error before commenting further. polling sure worked well in michigan. you remember how most didn’t want rounds in the five way 2014 primary, and how it always shifted his way as people dropped out? trump has that same dynamic going if you care to check. the establishment had the strength in that cycle – the table has turned and in this anti-establishment millieu i’d hate to be establishment. cruz should hate to be cozy with the establishment too but he’s kind of ok with it when it helps him. meh.
Pat – maybe you should post more about the actual polls. Most of what I’ve heard about poll numbers are from the candidates themselves; which is obviously subject…
Kelly,
I’m just commenting on the facts. As people have dropped out, Cruz got the first bump. Katich is getting the second bump. We don’t know where Rubio’s supporters are/will land.
Trump can win the nomination outright if he gets Rubio’s supporters. Cruz can go into a contested convention slightly ahead or behind if he gets Rubio’s supporters. Kasich can be a compromise candidate if Cruz or Trump (whoever isn’t in first) and Rubio’s delegate coalesce in one direction.
Try as you might to think I’m saying something which indicates my desire, you are incorrect. I want Trump to prove he can move above 35% and show he has more than his initial hardcore support. I want Cruz to prove that he can grow above his current support with Rubio gone. I want Kasich to prove he can move ahead of Cruz and show he has at least the same % of support from voters going forward in this smaller field.
It is the candidate who accomplishes the above that I will support. There can only be one.
Troy is smarter than I am so I try not to pick fights with him. But I will say that I do not want “Trump to prove he can move above 35%”. He has demonstrated to me that he does not have the temperament to be President. His threats, his demeaning of women along with the failure to denounce the KKK on the spot are but three examples. And then there is the encouraging of violence at his rallies that bothers me more than a little. I do not want his fingers near the nuclear button.
He doesn’t need more support. I do not want him topping 35%. No thanks. I have seen enough.
You have a hypothetical choice among Trump, Clinton or a 3rd party not going anywhere. Who do you vote for?
“failure to denounce the KKK”; he’s done this for at least a month on FB, Twitter and interviews over and over.
Minority protesters being pushed around and punched at a rally and Donald offers to look into paying legal bills instead of forcefully denouncing it? It’s time to get your head out of…. the sand.
Of course there are decent people supporting Trump. But I also know that, while it is only anecdotal evidence, everyone I know that has made disparaging remarks toward minorities in recent years is strongly supporting you-know-who. Somehow those mixed signals have been picked up by these folks and they know exactly who to vote for.
Calling immigrants rapists. Women belittled. Failing to denounce the KKK (at times). Yes, of course they know who to vote for. The KKK has endorsed him.
You are buying into the propaganda. Can not help who supports you. You would not like every person who supported the same candidate as you. Does not mean you did not both chose right candidate. Trump will not be controlled by the few that really control our country. He would actually be your president, not theirs. They have millions they are spending to stop that from happening. You must see past it to the truth, past the slander. He is not running for Sainthood. He just claims to understand the system from the other side, and says he can change things. They give us the illusion of voting. They allow us to chose one of their guys, but no one from the outside. There is much cross over in control of the two parties. So, Republicans prefer Hilary to Trump, because she is part of their system. Their system does ‘t work so well for most Americans.
Angela says: “You must see past it to the truth, past the slander.” (I will assume that you are serious.)
The thing that is so scary about Trump is that no matter how many “truthful” accounts of harassing, berating or threatening others are exposed, his supporters keep chanting his name.
Hiring illegals? No problem. A scam University? So what. Supporting Hillary Clinton financially? Ahhh, they all do it. Encouraging violence? No, he didn’t. Wink at racists? Of course not. Misogyny? Don’t know what that is.
Did he just threaten the Speaker of the House? Nooo, how could you say such a thing? Did he call for Riots? Gee, what Riots?
You want truth. “You betcha!” Here is the truth. This is a personality cult. And with the help of Drudge and talk radio, it has swallowed up 35% of the GOP. Maybe more.
He denounced them countless times, including in the past. This is an old Democrat trick. Call the guy a racist, use political correctness to shut someone down. Thought the Republicans did not condone that stuff!
The “old Democrat trick” is to send signals. Mixed signals. Enough to get the KKK vote but not so blatant as to lose everyone else.
You say: “Thought the Republicans did not condone that stuff!”
Me neither.
actually the old democrat trick is to take control of the media and colleges and crank out generations of americans with “better-formed thought patterns” but that’s a different debate.
An old, outdated debate you can have with yourself, Mary.
who in god’s name do you keep blathering about? you are dense.
An old, washed up former news reporter who has the personality of a sponge soaked in hydrochloric acid.
who is mary? i’m a guy, you’re a tool.
You have a tool? Oh, that’s marvelous, Mary.
….
He is not encouraging violence. Black Lives Matter and Move On.org are committing the violence. Where does all this come from, that it is not ok to push back? Why let these people set the agenda for the whole US? They are just another tool, like the politically correct tool of calling someone a racist and shutting them down, for the established power. It is not true that Trump did not denounce the KKK. It is a propaganda lie. Can you not see the truth? Remember, the media is aligned with the established power.
Al Sharpton is the root of any violence and condoning it and saying he would do it so all he ‘preaches’ to should do it too… And he’s a White House advisor?? No wonder no word from the big O on any recent violence (which I’m sure he is supportive of). Anyone hoping for a lesser divide in racial issues with him as President was sadly mistaken.
Jimmy, Kelly: you all have your favorites for your own reasons. I get that. I am willing to support the one who proves they can attract new/more people to them during the rest of the campaign. I’m all about winning the Presidency and defeating Hillary (who will be as Trump says “a disaster.”)
Jimmy: If Trump proves to me he has skills/message to attract more people to him which he has yet to demonstrate (build base about his initial support), doing this will demonstrate he a temperament people can/will accept.
Kelly: If Cruz attracts more than his current base will show he has the skills/message that is attractive to more than his current base.
Mr. Jones, you seem to be a thoughtful man. Please explain why so many “republicans” are willing to roll the dice on another unknown in DT, when some of them rolled the dice on an unknown leftist posing as a centrist 8 years ago. We have seen how that worked out. DT seems to me to be a Progressive populist verbalizing republican/conservative thought but I see no record of that in his past to make me think he would be right of center in his actions going forward.
pardon my intrusion. people who are supporting trump are not very connected to the republican party. they want the big solid middle ground back, where republicans and democrats could get together as a contiguous culture and not care about politics or correctness. they want the country we all had in the 90s, which was strong and invincible compared to what we have today. they understand the return isn’t going backward, its more like steering out of the ditch and back onto the road. they have no faith in the ability of the republican party, democrat party, liberal socialism or the conservative movement to find solutions, because they all feed off the energy of the problems. after years of watching hillary make a rigged mockery of the primary process, they’re dismayed to find the republican leadership is as bad. trump is a blend of a recognizable brand, trustable commodity, open book, street fighter, bad boy, tough dealmaker and business smarts. his people aren’t able to take the tedium of philosophical debates and theory. they want results.
Getting back on the road might not be enough. It has not been dragged to the ditch. It has been dragged so far out into the left field in my opinion that it will take a long way to get back to the center.
Trumps contagiousness is directly tied to American distrust of establishment politicians who all promise everything to everyone and deliver nothing of the same. Inept does not even come close to describing Washington. Instead of being honest about the Great American giveaway of everything to everyone and actually taxing Americans in order to do so we have doubled down on dumbness and borrowed then given it all away. We enter foreign wars and shock and awe their countries into oblivion then spend billions building them back up left with worse criminals in charge. We suck into slick talking mega heads talk about change and middle class rights while billions are stolen right out from under our noses.
We allow special interest groups the perverted freedom of the press to shutter common decent people to the sidelines while flags of every color but red white and blue rise above us. Rightly or wrongly Mr. T understands every ounce of this and he is pounding his way across the country giving the silenced a voice. He may not be our next President but he has awoken a sleeping giant in America.
Cannot disagree with you much on this. Just hope the sleeping giant does not nod off again. Wish the focus would be more on what all the “free stuff” actually does to the economy. The interest paid on the debt would go a long way to paying for many roads, et cetera. Starving the DC beast is the only solution for the country. Correlation to larger DC and poorer middle of America and spread the wealth to the rest of the world. The comment that every other industrialized country has this or that is a poor selling point in my book. America did not become great by following after every other industrialized country.
The only real answer is to overhaul the system. It does not work for voters. No parties, and popular vote! Let people decide on issues, not party affiliation. Need to have someone who is an organizer organize a revolt against the current system. I do not want some delegate O do not know being bought off for my vote! How about the rest of you? Regardless of where you stand, I think that is an area of great common ground. Bob Fischer represents the old way that does not benefit the average Joe. We need a new system, one that raising 1.8 million dollars in such a short period of time to overthrow the will of the people is not so easily done.
Our government is paid by Mexico to let people cross. European countries were paid to take refugees. All at the expense of their own citizens. They can’t let Trump get in the way of the most profitable form of human trafficking there is!
You could be right about that???
Fischer conservative? If he is a power and conservative in South Dakota why do we have these 3 rino representatives Noem doesn’t break 50% on conservative score cards, Thune not much better and last time I checked Rounnds was worse than Thune. SD Republican Governor playing tricks to force expanded Medicaid and it’s future budget breaking on the State. Governors and legislatures have played games with Constitutional Carry something real conservative States have had for years. When the rinos were playing games with convention rules 4 years ago our GOP representative was no where to be contacted to express opposition, these rules were strictly to contain the Tea Party. Fischer if he represents SD conservativism than conservativism is in bad shape. SD republicans are liberals that know they cannot be elected as democrats.
Thune, Rounds, Noem and Daugaard can’t be trusted but Donald Trump…. Donald Trump can? Trump is the real conservative? God help me. I would ask you to prove that but it would just amount to, as usual, a lot of personal attacks and no proof.
Pass the tin foil hats. We’re doomed.
the people who hate thune, rounds, noem and daugaard are all cruz supporters who hate Trump too, or hillary / bernie supporters who consider the four to be war criminals. sorry.
Not all people hate them, but beginning to disagree with them because they continue to grow state and federal government rather than hold the line or cut it back. They appear to be going along to get along rather than take a firm stand on anything. Oh, their words sound good, but the end result is more money sent through DC or state capital. Not a financial example, but prime example is draw a red line on supreme court pick and then they will end up waffling and waffling and then they will end up caving and giving a vote and we will have another leftist judge before the election. When you compromise with a leftist you always come out on the short end of the compromise no matter how you spin it.
The Clash said it best: He who ____ nuns will later join the church.
The establishment’s complete failure to acknowledge the Tea Party and trashing of Cruz has lead to Trump’s rise. Support Cruz. Trying to manipulate the outcome will result in a revolt like you’ve never seen. Get your crap together. This isn’t difficult.
Fletcher Spears
55 yo conservative
I’ve had enough of the Republican establishment.
Fletcher, Sorry but Ted Cruz is not the answer either. Brokered convention?
gop leadership used to make sure enemies got payback – too bad they put other republicans on that list instead of listening to them. cruz is in a hard hard place, first abandoned by leaders, NOW tainted by late support from those same leaders as they scramble to slow their own topple into disgrace. sad.
I see no good outcome from this. Billary will end up being our next president.
Who is organizing and paying for all these “protests” at Trump rallies? Follow the money. You might call me a conspiracy theorist, but I believe the GOP establishment could just as well be behind this as well as the left, using anarchists and paid, professional agitators to “protest” and then blame it all on Trump. The GOP establishment has as much to lose as the left if Trump were to win; why do you think that there are meetings and groups with the aim to stop Trump. Trump is not calling for violence. Yes, he said there might be riots at one point, but that is simply stating a fact, not calling for a riot, if the will of the people is ignored.
Bush was the first establishment pick, but that didn’t work out, so they went to Rubio. That failed too, and they are left with Kasich, thus the push to keep him in the race when common sense would tell him to get out. And if that doesn’t work, they want to put Paul Ryan’s name in the hat at the convention. Then get the media to go along and point out continuously all the negatives regarding Trump, get the media to rerun a single out of control protest (not by Trump supporters BTW) and make it sound like it is the norm. Then blame Trump for all the violence. And of course continue to call him bigot, racist, misogynist, etc. If you can’t see the establishment’s hand in all this, you are blind. I thought the primaries were supposed to allow the people to pick a candidate; but I guess the establishment considers us all too stupid or blind to make up our own minds.
My sister, a Democrat, will vote for Trump over Hillary. She is middle of the road politically and will not vote for Cruz over Hillary. I watched two black ladies on TV who switched from Dem to Rep just to vote for Trump in the primary, and they are organizing for Trump, as they do not want Hillary. But they also do not want Cruz. I would like Cruz because of his conservative stance, but I do not believe he will beat Hillary because many moderates will simply not vote for him.
https://www.lifesitenews.com/opinion/why-has-george-soros-given-john-kasichs-presidential-campaign-700000
“A simple search of Governor Kasich’s 2016 Presidential campaign donations lists the Soros Fund Management as the sixth highest individual donor with $202,700. The seventh largest donor is the Duquesne Family Office with $150,000. On the Super PAC side, Kasich’s New Day for America received $150,000 from Stanley Drukenmiller (who operates the Duquesne Family Office) and $200,000 from Scott Beset, who is employed by the Soros Fund Management. Scott Bessent served as George Soros’ chief investment manager until late 2015, while Stanley Druckenmiller currently manages $2 billion of Soros’ hedge funds. In total therefore, George Soros, personally and through surrogates, has donated over $700,000 to Governor John Kasich’s campaign.”
This is just one of several sites with this story. So in reality is Kasich being sponsored to stay in the race to sabotage the GOP? Why else would George Soros be giving money to him?
soros is hedging his bets, he’s a big “enemy-of-my-enemy-is-my-friend” kind of guy.
I think it time to give the establishment their due.
1). They can manipulate millions of conservatives, moderates and liberals to do their bidding.
2). We never can find any evidence against them
3). We don’t know who they are but we know they aren’t us.
4). And, they always figure out who we are for and they oppose who we support.
This is a pretty good trick. They have to be really smart because I don’t know anyone who can pull off a conspiracy with more than a couple of people.
We really have to give this “establishment” some credit. Pretty impressive.
mr jones nice sophistry. “establishment” is certainly an imprecise term, kind of like “xerox” is used to generically name a number of different types of copying processes. “establishment” isn’t a fixed body like the u-s congress or the fabled ‘trilateral commission’ or the 1969 “skull and bones” member list. it is a distillation of a force or zeitgeist – it’s the embodiment of an assemblage of disparate persons who nonetheless share a stake in a process or effort, or share an interest in a particular social goal or outcome. it really doesn’t have to be more precisely defined than that because that’s all it takes for the “hollywood establishment” fills entertainment with anti-christian and anti-republican messages; for the mainstream media establishment to all come out with similarly-worded and styled stories with the same convenient political twist on practically the same hour of the day; NO it is not an overt conspiracy with a dedicated number of conspirators creating evil plans at the top – – it is a frankenstein monster assembled from the conjoined personal agendas of thousands of casually and partially connected people in the culture’s important gateways and portals. that’s all it needs to be. i get so tired when someone negates the concerns of many by saying “saaaaay, i don’t see no conspirin’ over here or over there…” come on now.
you could call the move on dot org / black lives matter / code pink / occupy joint effort a protest establishment if you wanted. you can certainly call the cato institute, libertarians, constitutionalists and religious right the ‘conservative establishment’ if you want. certainly the republican vs republican fight that goes on each year in the legislature because there are no democrats at all is a battle between an establishment and its outsiders.
Enquirer2
I’d have to agree on this one with you lil brother.
Enquirer:
Establishment by definition is tangible and has a foundation. While you admit it is imprecise (synonyms are vague, hazy, ill-defined, nebulous, muddled, confused, ambiguous), it is used with precision to define candidates, positions, issues, and has the power to conduct conspiracies. It is a slur without meaning which people want to use to denigrate anyone who isn’t them and to avoid talking about both specific issues and philosophies/ideologies/values in a broader sense.
By definition, something that is nebulous/vague/unclear/ill-defined can’t be used to define something concrete and tangible.
a particular culture’s shared interests, coupled with their direct access or near proximity to leadership power, can be a firm enough “establishment” for my purposes.
— enquirer
4:40,
So anyone who aspires to be active in politics and elect people they agree with is an aspiration to form the establishment?
And, anyone who has been successful at politics is the establishment?
do you think so? i don’t think that was ever said. you’re describing a young republicans chapter or something. fortunately we don’t have to quibble about whether two or more persons agreeing to a goal and strategy meet the spirit of “establishment” or whether they have to break ground on a meeting hall or something. we have the conjoined mutual overlapping interests of long-time political connectees with access to leadership power in evidence, and if one has to erect a brick outhouse and post a sign to be an “establishment” then you didn’t read as much of the merriam webster listing as i did because i have definitely been talking about “a group of social, economic, and political leaders who form a ruling class.” the formation of course calls for shared conventions like a platform or by laws, which exist. the various ruling establishments of the country are quite real, and the corrupt areas where they improperly cross connect via cronyism are quite real, with results that can be observed in the visible world. ted cruz has a genuine establishment problem and it will hold him back. he has amassed support by calling a specific leader of the faceless establishment a liar by name, and made himself an outsider. a bigger outsider has bogarted a big chunk of the voter base cruz was poised to reach. sad for cruz, his main recourse has been to turn and rely on this establishments help to stay viable. oops there i go again, not making sense. i could continue but i think i have other things to do.
the point is there is a definable set of things promoted from above, that subjects down below are aggrieved by. if i have misappropriated a term that only has meaning in the arguments of Illinois v Hoffman etc, sorry.
Enquirer,
My point is simple: I don’t see the problems in our society caused by an “invisible man” but by a lack of general understanding of the causes and a lack of leadership creating a vacuum into which has rushed chaos. More importantly, the focus on this “invisible man” creates a victim mentality and an excuse for each of us to take responsibility for the problem and its solution.
I haven’t yet decided which of the three Republicans standing who will get my vote in June. They each have strengths and weaknesses in my opinion with regard to capability to provide the necessary leadership (in general, I think they understand the challenges/problems). With regard to Cruz (since you mention him), he fostered the outsider “lane” (as he calls it) and now laments someone who is more outsider than him grabbed it (maxim “why go for the lite version when you can have the real thing”).
Regarding his recourse “to turn”, you say it like it is a bad thing. Every candidate has a base of varying size and seldom is it a majority. Thus to win, candidates have to make an effort to reach out to those outside their base. That is how it works in a democracy. A candidate who thinks “turning” to those outside his base is somehow beneath him or a negative doesn’t understand leadership. No matter how good and prudent a person’s vision is, the inability to reach out to those who aren’t already in agreement just relegates that vision to a library shelf to later be picked up by someone with leadership skills.