39 Replies to “Governor Kristi Noem explains why she’s not going to shut down South Dakota”

  1. Nonymouse

    Strongly disagree. Truly a weak move; an utter lack of leadership. Will hit the record button and keep this for when she runs for re-election.

    1. Anonymous

      I didn’t know she was an expert scientist. Maybe she should listen and learn from the CDC. Evidently human lives mean nothing to her.

  2. Eastside Voter

    We need hospitals open. We need doctors & nurses working.

    We need medical labs open. We need brilliants scientists testing cures.

    That means we need electricity. Keep the power grid up. Keep power plants open. Keep hardy work crews out, fixing transformers, repairing power lines.

    We need medicine. Keep pharmaceutical plants running 24/7. Keep deliveries circulating; keep the transportation network running.

    Labs and drug factories need access to raw chemicals & manufactured drug components. We need that network to function effectively.

    We need clean water to survive. We need effective transmission to every home. Keep water treatment facilities open. Keep staff working. Monitor leaks and pollutants. Keep the system functioning.

    Workers need food. Therefore, we need trucks and trains running. We need tractors running. Farmer and ranchers need supplies. Break that supply chain & people starve.

    For trucks and trains, we need fuel. Keep gas stations open. Keep refineries open. Keep the national fuel delivery system running.

    We need police. We need firemen. We need ambulances to come when we call 911. We need emergency services. What if there’s another tornado? We need meteorologists working.

    We need our phones to work. We need that network running.

    We need access to heart surgeons and cancer treatments and all the crucial (non-COVID) medicines or multi-millions die.

    These vital networks are largely interdependent. Ultimately, we can’t afford to hide in our basements and wait it out. The cost – measured in human lives — would be catastrophic. IMHO, Kristi has the right idea.

    1. Not A Trumper

      So the 32 or so other states shut all those essential services down? They’ve gone back to the Stone Age?

      Someone is making a decision that a certain number of lives lost is ok by not mandating a shelter in place. The more people stay at home and avoid spreading the virus, while “pushing the peak” out farther, also flattens the curve. That’s how curves work. If peak X is reached in Y, but a peak X is reached in Y+1, the latter curve is flatter.

      What I’m hearing in all of this resistance to shelter longer is that we just gotta rip off the band-aid and if it culls the herd, so be it.

      1. a friend of education

        What some miss is that it’s a calculation of lives lost to COVID-19 versus lives lost to other mortal vectors. For example, if we command cancer victims to shelter in place, we decrease coronavirus transmission but we increase cancer deaths. Let’s say a battered wife needs to move into a crowded women’s’ shelter…but she might have coronavirus. Mandate she remains at home for 2 weeks? Turn everyone away until test kits arrive? There’s no perfect path. It’s a balance: harm A versus harm B. For example, we don’t need cinemas to open, but some critical infrastructure needs to stay open. Which choices increase total lives saved?

        1. Anonymous

          You have it backwards. As coronavirus patients swamp hospitals because we aren’t taking precautions, more cancer and transplant patients will die. Once treatable conditions will become fatal and that means a typical car crash might not be survivable anymore. The lack of medical resources will kill even more.

          1. Christopher Bonnett

            These two comments show the problem. Fear based thinker (anonymous) believes the scare tactics. The Friend of education has a rational approach showing they are thinking about the balance. Cancer patients will die in higher numbers. Suicides will increase. I many lock-down states entire floors of hospitals are empty. And when it’s all said and done Anonymous will need to explain why we had to state 150 million people because we shut down food production.

      2. Cliff Hadley

        There is no way to hide forever from this virus. This isn’t either-or, wealth-or-health. Rather, our choices range from bad to worse. Sheltering has limited effectiveness over time. We’ll take the hit eventually, then hope we have enough herd immunity built up to keep deaths to a minimum. That’s a risk worth taking.

        As for the 32 states that have totally shut down, they will soon find themselves in the Stone Age when they become so risk-averse that they refuse to open up in time to save livelihoods.

        1. Christopher Bonnett

          You can’t hide. 30% of city dwellers will test positive. A virus is 1/75 the size of a human hair. Masks don’t even slow it down. Who says so? WHO says so. SD is actually following the Swedish model that the WHO recommends.

      3. duggersd

        Point 1: CDC estimates that so far this season there have been at least 39 million flu illnesses, 400,000 hospitalizations and 24,000 deaths from flu.
        Using your logic, next fall when influenza season hits, are you suggesting we have a stay at home policy?
        Point 2: In order for certain things to happen, there has to be commerce. You do like to eat, don’t you? If groceries and other things you use daily are not able to get to your stores, you might have a problem.
        Point 3: Most corona virus patients don’t need to be hospitalized. “The vast majority of people – about 80% – will do well without any specific intervention,” said Dr. Anthony Fauci. There are certain people who should absolutely be away from other people. If you are diabetic, stay home. If you are elderly, stay home. If you have some sort of heart problem, stay home. If you have a respiratory problem, stay home. If you are otherwise healthy, take precautions and don’t visit the vulnerable people.
        Point 4: In 2017, the last year I can find a number for, there were 2,813,503 deaths in the US. So far there have been around 5,000 deaths with some estimates of up to 200,000 deaths from corona virus by the time this is done. I expect less than that. In relation to the overall numbers in deaths, corona virus will not be that large. Do you really want to destroy an economy over something as small as this?
        Most of the people who die from corona virus have some sort of underlying condition. By mitigating those people, we can beat this thing and not ruin our economy. Yes, people will die. But people die all of the time. And if you don’t like the rules, you can always stay at home yourself.

        1. Anonymous

          Answer 1) due to several factors (mortality rates, ease of spread, presence of a vaccine, immunity) this is nothing like the regular flu. Check out the graph of those flu deaths vs this. We may very well have 24,000 deaths in a single day due to this. Trump agrees.

          Answer 2) All shelter in place orders include the ability for essential business to continue. What happens when too many people who do these jobs get sick at once and they shut down as opposed to being monitored and regulated?

          Answer 3) they just ordered in NYC that if you cannot save a cardiac arrest patient in the field, dont even bring them to the hospitals. Italy and spain report the same. If everyone gets it at once, even the small percentage that need hospitalization overwhelm the system. Average stay for a COVID-19 patient is over 3 weeks, average with the regular flu is under 3 days. This means when the people with no underlying conditions have heart attacks or fall off ladders or get into car accidents they just die instead of receive life saving care. Thats what Dr Fauci means by flatten the curve, I would bet he agrees with me on point 3

          Answer 4) this is answered by all the points above. “Healthy” people die from emergencies because the system is clogged. 200,000 deaths is if we actually do what Dr Fauci recommends, upwards of a million or more if we do nothing (2.2 million if you hear Trump tell it). The impact on the economy only starts to decrease when the virus does, prolonging the inevitable by sticking our head in the sand wont work.

          The idea that people die all the time so we shouldn’t do anything to help them is the most macabre, least Christian position I think I have heard pushed in public policy.

          1. Anonymous

            Anon at 11:12, right on. Shelter in place doesn’t mean you need to cook your squirrel over a fire.

            Thought we had a bunch of pro lifers on this site. Everyone should be careful, they call this thing the Boomer Doomer for a reason.

          2. duggersd

            Answer : “Around 74% of all deaths in the United States occur as a result of 10 causes. Over the past 5 years, the main causes of death in the U.S. have remained fairly consistent.
            According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), there were 2,813,503 registered deaths in the United States in 2017.” https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/282929 Covid 19 is nowhere near making the list.
            Answer 2: What is essential business? More than 80% of the people who get this stuff do not need to be hospitalized. I do not see that happening.
            Answer 3: If things are so dire they cannot take care of cardiac arrest, then why is this true? “Only 20 patients were being treated Thursday on the USNS Comfort hospital ship that docked in New York Harbor earlier this week to aid in the coronavirus fight.” If you read the WHOLE story, you find that the cardiac arrest cases are from situations where the EMT’s have actually been working on the individual for quite some time.
            Answer 4: You are using the good doctor’s numbers based upon a model that has not shown itself to be accurate. The fact of the matter is people can do things to mitigate the circumstances. I don’t have to go through them here, you have heard them already. If you don’t feel safe, by all means stay home. Everyone has risks in their jobs and just by living. I recommend we quit cowering at home and continue to live. Just be careful, just like you would with anything that can kill you.

          1. Anonymous

            But… there’s also the question of: Are people dying with the virus or because of it? How exactly are virus deaths being counted?

            For example:
            Italy says 99% of those who died from the virus had other illness, and almost half of the victims suffered from 3 prior illnesses.

            In IL an infant is counted as dying from the virus, however, the baby had a bowel blockage and organ failure, and was hospitalized a month before their death. While the cause of death was under investigation it was still counted as a virus death.

            In PA a 61yr/old man’s primary cause of death was a head injury, but tested positive for the virus so he was counted as a virus death. There are many more examples of situations similar to these.

            Is it political? Is it a fear tactic?

            1. Christopher Bonnett

              150 million will starve to death next winter because of the US shutdown according to the UN. I hope it was worth it for those who thought it was a good idea.

    1. District 14 voter

      When you find the answer to your question, please share.

      I don’t think people actually take the time to research or go directly to, let’s say, an executive order or something similar like you did to read, understand, and be informed. With all this time on everyone’s hands one would think they could take the time to do those things…huh.

  3. Troy

    The mantra of “flatten the curve” is not about decreasing infections but about extending the timeframe for infections to occur. So, the more successful we are at flattening the curve, the longer it will be until we can return to a life of normalcy and the carnage occurring in our economy can be reversed.

    The questions are many but two central questions are:

    1) How long will we have to flatten the curve so as not to over-tax our hospitals or until an effective antiviral available at least in sufficient volumes to treat new infections? Are we prepared to flatten it to the degree we don’t open schools in September? And,

    2) How long can we shutdown the economy with unemployment increasing to over 30% and over 47million people and be able to meet basic needs of food, shelter, social security and health care before we have an implosion which will be worst than the Great Depression?

    In short, if the economy begins to fail before we satisfy #1, all we have done to “flatten the curve” will be for naught.

    If you just drive around Sioux Falls (every community is different so its conditions demand different answers), the efforts to flatten the curve are significant. It is clear by observing the activity, people who can work at home are working at home. Businesses that require people to be at work are doing their best to practice social distancing including using zoom for meetings even though people are just around the corner. Manufacturers and other B2B businesses are changing business practices and or cleaning non-stop to flatten the curve. Restaurants are virtually closed, only allow small groups, or providing curbside meals. Same with bars.

    So, what would we really accomplish by a shelter at home if we have an appropriately flat curve? Destroy more businesses including those who have successfully adjusted their operations to minimize infection spread and where such destruction will eliminate future employment opportunity? Make it necessary we have to stay in shutdown into the Fall?

    There is a reason why the CDC has decision-trees based on actual conditions on the ground for actions like this: They lose their effectiveness over time and might not be available when most needed or they are most effective prior to, in concurrence with, or subsequent to certain actions.

    A literally deadly assumption is if a little is good, more is better, and everything at the same time is best. There are a lot of behavioral reasons why prudence and temperance and judgement is critical but the easiest for me everyone who is from a family should understand.

    If you have economic means, a functional family and support group, it is easier to navigate and comply with a long-term shutdown.

    But, if you are food insecure (about 10% of the population), live paycheck to paycheck (about 50%), live in a single parent home (about 30%) or live in a home with abuse (at least 12%), it is difficult to navigate and comply with even a short-term shutdown.

    Thus, since epidemic mitigation efforts depend on substantial compliance to be effective, it prudent to preserve our mitigation capacities to be deployed when they can be most effective. And, it is courageous to stand up to a mob which is scared and thinks doing everything is better than only acting as conditions dictate.

    Governor Noem deserves praise for being willing to provide leadership in the face of an uninformed and scared public opinion and make decisions based on facts as they exist.

    For those who are clamoring for any action, more action, I ask some rhetorical question:

    1) Why has the New York Governor in the cauldron of the worst infection questioned his shelter in place order?

    2a) Why was yesterday the worst total death day for Germany, UK, France, Italy, & Spain (combined whose total populations is equal to the USA) despite having been in an over three-week total lockdown? Could it be one-size fits all not be an effective strategy?

    2b) Why has Germany, UK, France, Italy and Spain (same total population of the USA) experienced over 30,000 deaths and the USA under 7,000 in the last two weeks when they have been under lockdown for three weeks?

    3) Why does Sweden have a lower death rate per capita (and lower death rate growth) than virtually all of Europe when they haven’t ordered any shutdown orders but instead have concentrated on protecting the elderly and medically vulnerable?

    One final comment: Decisions in a crisis are hard and never clear-cut as all decisions have unintended consequences (sometimes evident and sometimes not evident) or the choices are can be a choice between to good choices or a choice between two bad choices.

    Thus, anyone who thinks the Governor has easy clear-cut decisions doesn’t know what they don’t know and dangerous. All of her most recent decisions have made it clear they have been made with the best available information and consultation with the experts on the matters at hand.

    Personally, while mistakes are possible, I am much more confident in a leader who is making the decisions based information and not fear.

    1. Anonymous

      An uninformed public: like the type of people who assert the rate of spread was slowing 4 weeks ago?

      You still haven’t admitted you were wrong, Troy. You still continue to pontificate anyway. World keeps on spinning.

      1. Troy

        Point out the context and I will address.

        If it was over a month ago, it may have been when we were still incorporating China numbers in the models

        But, right or wrong, I put my name on what I say, I provide my reasoning.

        You however are such a coward you attack me and won’t allow me to look you in the eye. You are not some Alexander Hamilton afraid of being hung by the King of England.

        I have no power. Why are you so scared?

        1. Anonymous

          Because you consistently spout falsehoods and people believe you because you say it in an articulate manner. You are full of it, and being full of it on covid can get people killed, you utter narcissist.

            1. Anonymous

              Cool, let’s go with that. Not sure how this follows anyway. I say Troy lies a lot, and your response is: “You havent run a business.” K.

          1. Troy

            Why are you so scared of me that you won’t allow me to judge your veracity?

            You accuse me of lying and all I ask you is to point out when you think I lied. A person of decency would also allow a person to defend myself.

            Maybe I had bad information. Maybe I misunderstood the information I had. Maybe I misapplied the information I had. Maybe the information was insufficient for reaching a conclusion. But, none of those are falsehoods as that requires an intent to deceive which if you are going to do that, quit being weasel and stand up like a person of integrity and face me.

            1. Anonymous

              I have done so several times. You claimed the rate of spread of corona virus was slowing roughly a month ago. Do you want me to find the particular thread you claimed it? You tried to backpedal once, obliquely referencing logarithmic scales as though putting the data on that scale meant the rate of spread was slowing (hint: it wasn’t). Again: either you are pretty bad at math, or you lied.

              1. Troy

                Or, I was relying on the data was reported to be happening in China (which we now know is false). You need to go back to the particular date.

                In fact, if you extrapolated China’s data, we’d have licked this a long time ago.

                That said, your inability to even argue against a single point I make in this thread but can only reference what was happening in February shows your only skill is to be a critic and not be part of any solution.

                Coward and loser. What a horrible way to go thru life.

                1. Anonymous

                  Yeah, let’s stick with coward and loser. Labeling people that all because you got called out on an internet forum for playing fast and loose with facts.
                  One of us is clearly bothered.

  4. Cliff Hadley

    Excellent overview, Troy.

    The money graf: “In short, if the economy begins to fail before we satisfy #1, all we have done to ‘flatten the curve’ will be for naught.”

    Almost exactly what my wife and I asked Gov. Noem in an email a couple weeks ago. She’s impressed us in her recent statements and actions.

    1. Anonymous

      More people will die because of Noem’s response, and not just covid victims. Lack of resources is going to delay many life saving procedures. Prolife until it affects profits.

      1. Anonymous

        Do you know the number of “resources” SD currently has, and how many people are currently using said resources? Do you have the number of ventilators (which I assume you include in “resources”) SD has and how many people are currently using them? I doubt it.

        Have you listened to Trump’s almost daily briefings? I think if you did you’d have a different opinion than lack of resources is going to “delay” needed care… oh, and blame Noem.

  5. rostasi

    Wow! Wow! Wow! I was gonna say that I can’t believe the reasoning when it comes to this nonsense she saying, but, really, there isn’t any. Good luck with that move S.D.